Things learned in the real world

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jg24
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Things learned in the real world

Post by jg24 »

Driving home after a flight today, my head was in the clouds. I was thinking about what we've learned during our first flying job. What was the biggest thing (or multiple things) that you've learned at your first flying gig. Or second/third gig for that matter. Things that blindsided you that you wish you had been briefed prior to joining the workforce. I'm sure many of you have some great stuff to share.
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5400AirportRdSouth
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by 5400AirportRdSouth »

I remember being warned about being "pushed" or otherwise convinced to do sketchy things by all these unscrupulous owners and cowboy coworkers.

Took me a few years but finally realized the only one doing the "pushing" was me. Self discipline to maintain my own standards in the face of my own need to git r done / prove my worth / be one of guys has always been much more of a challenge than any external pressure.

New students should be told to objectively examine their motivations in their decision making instead of making someone else out to be the bad guy and ducking the blame from where it more often falls...
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jg24
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by jg24 »

5400AirportRdSouth wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:03 pm I remember being warned about being "pushed" or otherwise convinced to do sketchy things by all these unscrupulous owners and cowboy coworkers.

Took me a few years but finally realized the only one doing the "pushing" was me. Self discipline to maintain my own standards in the face of my own need to git r done / prove my worth / be one of guys has always been much more of a challenge than any external pressure.

New students should be told to objectively examine their motivations in their decision making instead of making someone else out to be the bad guy and ducking the blame from where it more often falls...
Ah yes! The being pushed.... boy have we all seen that. Kinda slipped to the back of my mind, thanks for reminding me. Those pushed flights been interesting, doesn't help that the plane was at "MTOW"...
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by goingnowherefast »

How to safely fly at 500' VFR.

Isn't it wonderful that all the flight schools have hard "SOP" limits of 2500' for cross countries, yet as soon as you hop in that 180 on floats with 2 paying passengers, it's now the CARs regulated 300'?

Now a smart pilot won't instantly jump in and go flying in that weather with 210 hours, they'll gradually work their way down as comfort and experience permit. However, wouldn't it be better if that was taught by an experienced instructor first?
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5x5
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by 5x5 »

goingnowherefast wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:11 am Now a smart pilot won't instantly jump in and go flying in that weather with 210 hours, they'll gradually work their way down as comfort and experience permit. However, wouldn't it be better if that was taught by an experienced instructor first?
Ah yes, the old refrain about poor or lacking flight school training. What your talking about is experience and the only way to get that is to accumulate it through time. A person gains experience, it isn't something you can teach. People regularly bitch about flight schools "milking" students and taking way to long to get them through basic PPL/CPL training. And now the schools should provide "experience" training? How about businesses stepping up and, when bringing on new pilots, not just doing the following?
goingnowherefast wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:11 am Isn't it wonderful that all the flight schools have hard "SOP" limits of 2500' for cross countries, yet as soon as you hop in that 180 on floats with 2 paying passengers, it's now the CARs regulated 300'?
Rather than bashing flight schools all the time, perhaps consider bashing operators who expect new pilots to fly in conditions they yet to have any exposure to. Part of hiring a newly licensed pilot (or new, inexperienced, employee in any type of business - aviation is not unique) has to be mentoring and continued development by more experienced staff.
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by KAG »

If you cant see in front of you, you have no business being that low" . You can safely be at 100 feet provided you can see in front of you.
advice given to me when I first joined Borek by the late Bob Heath (just curious)

When deciding if you should go or not, and it takes longer to decide that than what you want for supper, you're pushing yourself, you know you shouldn't go.

When dealing with a customer who is really pushy I found it best to put the go no go decision on them (provided it wasnt safety related then it was just no). Example the weather is crap so I'd frame it this way: yes I'll happily take you to ___ just understand I dont think theres a chance we'll get in. We can safely try and I'll get paid, but it's your dime. Or we wait till ___ and the weather will improve.

If you're instructing, never, ever fleece your students. You never know when your career paths will cross again and it may be you sitting on the other side of the table.

Keep your word. Not sticking to it has a way of following you around.
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Last edited by KAG on Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Paperwork matters. I was almost fired from my first job after a series of Journey Log screw ups. The boss was pissed because I was not paying attention to my actual up and down times and ended up over estimating leg times. He though it was deliberately done in order pad my log book and it resulted in the airplane having to go in for inspections earlier then necessary. In reality the problem was all the flight schools I flew at just used hobbs less .2 for airtime and I never got into the habit of recording my actual up/down times.

I quit a later job because the CP wanted me to fudge up/down times so that it looked like we were inside the duty day limits even though we were not.

TC sees lots of badly done/incomplete Operational Flight Plans at the smaller operators. Finding that on an inspection will generate a lot of work for the Operations Manager which won't make you very popular......

Want to impress your boss on your first job ? Do something you almost never see; tidy up the cabin and wipe any stains. oil drops etc before walking away from the airplane.
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by PT6-114A »

One of the best things I was told when I got my first job (C206 on wheels) was go everywhere at 300-500 feet well the weather was clear, then when you get the first shit weather day it is not surprising to you to be that low and it looks formiluar. try a 180 deg turn, try flaps 20 slowed down BEFORE you NEED it.
I remember the first time I had to turn around and run for base I thought I was going to be in shit. I landed and got asked how it was out there, I explained and got told “well we will just try again tomorrow” there was no pressure at all. Like a guy or girl above said most of the pressure come from us our selfs.
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

When flying down low....

Always trim up so that some forward pressure on the yoke is maintained. Should you get distracted and release that pressure at least your not going to go downwards.

In bad weather down low... extending your flaps slows you down and gives you more time to figure out if you want to keep going or turn back.

All the best,
TPC
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DanWEC
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by DanWEC »

What a great topic!
Those words by 5400airportrdsouth about mitigating self pressure are very true.

For me, I learned the absolute value of not rushing, and avoiding complacency by using some sort of check... maybe a list of them? Seems fundamental, but hey. I bet we're all guilty of skimming the list. Some are more important than others. The old adage that the most dangerous pilot has 1000 hours......

I was cut loose for a season with my own airplane and zero supervision in a terrific job in far remote Northern Sask. Being a 30 year old new pilot, not an 18 year old new pilot, I thought, I had my head on. I'm smart, and had gotten this far right?
I was jumping into my plane in the morning and doing my duties. Within weeks it was second nature and I stopped using the checklist, realizing I could be airborne in minutes without all this cumbersome BS right? It was the same single pilot piston twin every day and basically mine. It was easy and I did everything "safely".
I'll never do that again. Because no matter how good you are, if you ever get out of your routine (Which will inevitably happen at some point) eventually, you will forget things that you don't want to forget.
Nothing tragic happened, but I had to do an immediate short return to the runway, and that scared me- Not the maneuver itself but the fact that I could forget something so simple that caused it.
Deep breath taken and lifelong lesson learned. Despite our best efforts we're human and always will be!!!! (Insert "Duh really that's what checklists are for you idiot" here.)
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digits_
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by digits_ »

While there might a lot of perceived pressure, let's not downplay it too much, and accept that there is still some very real pressure out there at certain operators.
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jg24
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by jg24 »

PT6-114A wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:24 pm One of the best things I was told when I got my first job (C206 on wheels) was go everywhere at 300-500 feet well the weather was clear, then when you get the first shit weather day it is not surprising to you to be that low and it looks formiluar. try a 180 deg turn, try flaps 20 slowed down BEFORE you NEED it.
I remember the first time I had to turn around and run for base I thought I was going to be in shit. I landed and got asked how it was out there, I explained and got told “well we will just try again tomorrow” there was no pressure at all. Like a guy or girl above said most of the pressure come from us our selfs.

Very same boat as you. First gig ( single piston), had one of the pilots show me on the map the "get out of dodge route", we practically memorized those routes by heart. Apparently, it was common for the weather to crap out enough for you to skim those routes at or below 500', so we prepared ourselves as best we could to get out of the nasty stuff it it caught us off guard.

I agree that pressure does come from within, but there are for sure instances where it alos comes from e clients or operators. I've dealt with some pretty crappy guys in the past.
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Hangry
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by Hangry »

Don’t wear long sleeves.
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moe
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by moe »

Ha
Nice one
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Re: Things learned in the real world

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

MTOW... ;)
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