Logbook cleanup

[AirCanuck]

I have been looking back at my civilian logbook (I have flown military now for 8 years or so, no civilian), and I noticed something embarrassing. I was not a good logbook keeper. Worse, my school did not sign off any of the pages as having the totals correct.

Now that I am thinking of applying for civilian companies, I'm worried this looks very unprofessional. Yes, it contains only 225 hours out of my 1800 and the remaining ~1570 hours are scrupulously kept in my professional (military) logbook, but it does look bad.

My question is twofold:

a) will companies frown on this?
b) is there a way to have it certified as correct now? As in, have someone check through the book and make sure all is well?

These times are from a university program from which I got my commercial multi-IFR rating. However, I do not believe the flight school who ran the program still exists.

suggestions?

[Schooner69A]

AirCanuck: not to worry. I wouldn't even mention the civilian log book. You show up with a valid ATPL and your military logbook and nobody is going to worry about the civilian time... (And I sympathize about your record keeping complaint: I was never noted for my penmanship...)

[AirCanuck]

AirCanuck: not to worry. I wouldn't even mention the civilian log book. You show up with a valid ATPL and your military logbook and nobody is going to worry about the civilian time... (And I sympathize about your record keeping complaint: I was never noted for my penmanship...)

Problem is, I'm PIC time hungry still... I need the PIC that is in my civilian logbook for my ATPL, and the 225 hours there are helping me get to anything near hireable by a civvie airline

[MrTurbine]

AirCanuck: not to worry. I wouldn't even mention the civilian log book. You show up with a valid ATPL and your military logbook and nobody is going to worry about the civilian time... (And I sympathize about your record keeping complaint: I was never noted for my penmanship...)

Problem is, I'm PIC time hungry still... I need the PIC that is in my civilian logbook for my ATPL, and the 225 hours there are helping me get to anything near hireable by a civvie airline

Don’t worry about getting it signed off for your AAs. Just don’t BS any of it, obviously. If it looks bad, buy a new personal logbook, and re write all your civvy time. When I applied for my AAs, I re-hand wrote all 1700 hours in a new log book, not just the to make it look nice, but to double check my math. Took two full days, but totally worth it. Yours should take a couple of hours at most.

Employers won’t care about your civvy being signed off, if your military is. Your most recent (military) must be signed off though.

If you have issues, especially at the WestJet company, let me know.

[altiplano]

So this was the hours to get a civilian CPL/MIFR? Just that you were licensed at that time infers at least 200 hours are correct.

If you're coming out of the military I wouldn't worry about it as far as employers are concerned. Sign the bottom of the pages as correct, and explain it if anyone asks.

If you still wanted to pursue it, unless you can get in touch with whoever ran the school, CFI, or something I don't think you can get the book certified. Maybe you could get a letter from one of your instructors that states between date/date you completed a CPL/MIFR program on aircrafts CF*** & CG*** and so on. Can you get transcripts from the university to corroborate it?

It won't be an issue for TC when you submit your logbooks for an ATPL.

Anyway, good luck.

[altiplano]

About rewriting the book/hours.

All of us probably scribbled and used a variety of colours in our first logbook...

I did anyway, and transferred/rewrote maybe my first 500 hours or so into a new big book. All black pen and neatly scribed.

But I kept the original book and when I went for my AC interview they were glad I brought it. I suggest you keep it too... they understand the rewrite but will want to see the original.

[ahramin]

I have never re-written any of my books and never had a flight school or operator certify my hours. Never had a problem until I got to the airlines and they expressed concern that none of my claimed multi PIC time was certified. I took the book and scribbled "all times certified correct" and signed it with my licence number. They thought about it a bit and then accepted it.

Worrying about your times and totals being accurate and correct is a good idea. Worrying about previous neatness, certified pages, or any other passé nonsense is not a good use of your time. It isn't going to make the difference between being hired or not hired at anywhere worth working.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I have two logbooks... my one from my student days and my "Professional" one that has the same entries but much more legible and with correct math. For any interview I ever went to, I brought both and just explained that my writing got better with age and so I redid it, but kept the original with any cross-country stamps, sign-offs, etc. It was always good for a laugh in the interview.

And I also left a company and forgot to get my logbook signed off. Usually if you email the CP, they will email you a letter stating that all times on aircraft C-FXXX, C-GXXX, etc. from This date to This date are correct. I then stapled this page directly into my logbook on the page with the last flight at that company.

I submitted both logbooks and the stapled-in sign-off of hours like this to Transport for my AA's, and they had no problem with it.

[tired of the ground]

The grand total of nobody, cares if you've had your logbook "certified". Do the math right, have some integrity and get on with life. If you wan't a pretty copy, go for it. Keep the old one in case someone gets curious.

Transport Canada may or may not ask for some of your entries to be verified Usually that a single pilot airplane was required to have 2 crew per the ops manual. My log book was not "certified" and it wasn't a problem. Overseas gets a little funny about certified logbooks. Get your buddy to sign your logbook "certified".

[AirCanuck]

makes sense guys, thanks for the input. I have been in touch with my old university folks and the same guys are still running the new school, so I may get it certified after all, just for peace of mind. I grant it won't make the difference between a hiring or not but it's always nice to put your best foot forward.

I have another one for you wise folks:

anyone who has transferred from military to civilian... how did you record your time and new totals in a civilian logbook? I have my civilian logbook which stops when I graduated from my university program, and my military logbook which has all my military time, but neither logbook reflects the other's existence.

thoughts?

[Meatservo]

I think you can probably start a new page in your civilian logbook, with a line that says "totals transferred from RCAF logbook # xxxx" .

As long as you have a paper trail that proves everything you say in your present logbook is true, you'll do just fine. No-one wants to send you to jail on a technicality. Flying is flying. Even if it's sloppy, you have a record of your initial flight training. You also have a record of your career flying to date. Your next logbookmis no different. Add up your experience from the first two books, and start the new one that way. As long as there's a paper trail, no-one can question it.

[AirCanuck]

Thanks. I'm used to very rigid logbook rules from the military. Seems a little more higgledy piggledy out in civvie world

[BE02 Driver]

Thanks. I'm used to very rigid logbook rules from the military. Seems a little more higgledy piggledy out in civvie world

You also could buy or make a digital logbook and transcribe everything into it.

I went digital pretty early, like 300 hours in. No problems with it so far. When anyone has asked I just print it off and sign the bottoms as true and complete. No stamps in the book, I had to get an occasional letter certifying PIC U/S etc.

Nice part about digital is you don't get addition errors etc. You can also look up odd things, like amount of tailwheel time, or time on a certain type etc.

I made my logbook in Excel, then transferred it to Google Sheets a few years ago. Now it's available and safely backed up online. The rules for logbooks are fairly liberal.

[Meatservo]

Thanks. I'm used to very rigid logbook rules from the military. Seems a little more higgledy piggledy out in civvie world

You'll be given more credit for independent thought out here, or hung out to dry for it if your independent thought is wrong. There will be challenges. You'll also be expected to buy your own underpants. The good news is, they come in other colours besides green. Best be prepared.

[Arnie Pye]

Overseas work is a very valid option for someone coming out of the military. Here's where things get a little different than in the Canadian civilian world. Logbooks vary all over the world. This is where a digital logbook is very helpful. Logten Pro for example can spit out a logbook in the format of any country. 1800 hours plus your 250 civilian would not take too much time to enter into Logten and then you'll have all of your data in one spot. You can then get this certified as correct.

The overseas companies I have worked for were sticklers for paperwork. It was very important to them that my logbook be certified correct. One was hesitant to have my signature on it and wanted someone else to sign it off. Problem was that I worked overseas far from the office environment and only saw my chief pilot once since training. In this case, I went to a commissioner of oaths and swore a statement that my times were correct. I think it cost me $50 in Toronto but in the end I had someone else's signature stating that my times were correct and that kept all the overseas companies happy there forward. Incidentally, in Australia, you can walk into a pharmacy or the post office and for a $2 charitable donation they'll certify any document you need. Great system.

I seriously doubt that any of the companies I have worked for actually contacted the previous companies in question to verify signatures etc. They just want to see that someone has done this in the past. The company I'm at now didn't even contact my references when I applied come to think of it.

This is my view of the world at large - They are more concerned with the impression of correctness than actual correctness (as long as you aren't outright lying about your time).

[anofly]

You can go to a commissioner of oaths at most municipalities, often a clerk. Mine charges 10 bucks for a swearing....