Duty rules?

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fayuyang
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by fayuyang »

DrSpaceman wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:12 am Anyone know what’s taking so long?
I thought we were waiting for final rules this summer?
Maybe legalizing weed is a more important than pilots duty rules? :twisted: :twisted:
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

At this point, changing duty regs to what TC wants will more than likely cause a couple accidents.
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FL007
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by FL007 »

seven-oh-nooo wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:08 pm At this point, changing duty regs to what TC wants will more than likely cause a couple accidents.
Not a chance.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

FL007 wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:50 pm
seven-oh-nooo wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:08 pm At this point, changing duty regs to what TC wants will more than likely cause a couple accidents.
Not a chance.
You don't think it's tempting to lower training standards just a bit more, little by little, just to get those cockpit seats filled cheaply when you have to add a significant number of pilots to your roster?
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dogfood
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by dogfood »

Going have to agree with you on that company's will just lower the bar even more. I'd rather have overworked experienced pilots flying me than inexperienced under qualified pilots up front.
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lownslow
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by lownslow »

dogfood wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:16 pm Going have to agree with you on that company's will just lower the bar even more. I'd rather have overworked experienced pilots flying me than inexperienced under qualified pilots up front.
Man, if that doesn’t keep you up all night...
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FL007
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by FL007 »

seven-oh-nooo wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:45 pm
FL007 wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:50 pm
seven-oh-nooo wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:08 pm At this point, changing duty regs to what TC wants will more than likely cause a couple accidents.
Not a chance.
You don't think it's tempting to lower training standards just a bit more, little by little, just to get those cockpit seats filled cheaply when you have to add a significant number of pilots to your roster?
I understand what you're saying but jazz already hires 600hrs currently and takes 250hrs from their college programs, there were upgraded pilots at 1700hrs.

Its already going in that direction, there has already probably been sub 2500hr total experience flying around in 705 machines this year. The minimum it can go is 1500+250, and we were going to get there in 5yrs anyway. I remember less than 5 years ago you couldn't touch a 705 machine with less than 2k hours.

They're currently able to fly 14hrs, so we currently have low experience and high fatigue.
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dhc#
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by dhc# »

Things will only change, unfortunately when the kids flying Q400s and the like these days starting turning them into lawn darts across the country, limited experience and fatigue should be a giant red flag..you'd think with what happened in the past (ie. Colgan 3407), industry would learn from the mistakes of others, but the regulators are kowtowing to industry and the almighty $$$.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

dhc# wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:54 am the kids flying Q400s and the like these days starting turning them into lawn darts across the country
I'm not overly worried about that, those guys have robust procedures, a lot of training, operations into places with ILSes, constant oversight, and captains with ATPLs.

Think instead about the operations which only need a CPL in the left seat.
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FL007
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by FL007 »

seven-oh-nooo wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:16 am
dhc# wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:54 am the kids flying Q400s and the like these days starting turning them into lawn darts across the country
I'm not overly worried about that, those guys have robust procedures, a lot of training, operations into places with ILSes, constant oversight, and captains with ATPLs.

Think instead about the operations which only need a CPL in the left seat.
Captains with atpls. Lol tons of 1500hr instructors holds an atpl, 5 months right seat on a Q and they're a captain.
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dhc#
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by dhc# »

Still doesn't mean it's safe, outdated regulations and a piece of paper doesn't replace experience..accident(s) is/are a matter of time, as a result of greed/stupidity from industry and coward regulators.
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FL007
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by FL007 »

dhc# wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm Still doesn't mean it's safe, outdated regulations and a piece of paper doesn't replace experience..accident(s) is/are a matter of time, as a result of greed/stupidity from industry and coward regulators.
Exactly, I'm agreeing with you. Instructors shouldn't go left seat after 5 months on type. Atpl means nothing, especially when you've never flown into a cloud before. Now you have a brand new fo and a 1600hr captain and 14hr duty days.
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Lightchop
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by Lightchop »

FL007 wrote: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:39 am
seven-oh-nooo wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:45 pm
FL007 wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:50 pm

Not a chance.
You don't think it's tempting to lower training standards just a bit more, little by little, just to get those cockpit seats filled cheaply when you have to add a significant number of pilots to your roster?
I understand what you're saying but jazz already hires 600hrs currently and takes 250hrs from their college programs, there were upgraded pilots at 1700hrs.

Its already going in that direction, there has already probably been sub 2500hr total experience flying around in 705 machines this year. The minimum it can go is 1500+250, and we were going to get there in 5yrs anyway. I remember less than 5 years ago you couldn't touch a 705 machine with less than 2k hours.

They're currently able to fly 14hrs, so we currently have low experience and high fatigue.
1590+250 is already happening at Jazz.

I upgraded into a new aircraft at about 2100TT. Honestly sometimes I'm surprised it's allowed. I feel completely comfortable in the plane and being a Captain but it's still pretty crazy how much this industry has changed in the last 5 years.
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FL007
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Re: Duty rules?

Post by FL007 »

Lightchop wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:35 pm
FL007 wrote: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:39 am
seven-oh-nooo wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:45 pm
You don't think it's tempting to lower training standards just a bit more, little by little, just to get those cockpit seats filled cheaply when you have to add a significant number of pilots to your roster?
I understand what you're saying but jazz already hires 600hrs currently and takes 250hrs from their college programs, there were upgraded pilots at 1700hrs.

Its already going in that direction, there has already probably been sub 2500hr total experience flying around in 705 machines this year. The minimum it can go is 1500+250, and we were going to get there in 5yrs anyway. I remember less than 5 years ago you couldn't touch a 705 machine with less than 2k hours.

They're currently able to fly 14hrs, so we currently have low experience and high fatigue.
1590+250 is already happening at Jazz.

I upgraded into a new aircraft at about 2100TT. Honestly sometimes I'm surprised it's allowed. I feel completely comfortable in the plane and being a Captain but it's still pretty crazy how much this industry has changed in the last 5 years.
You might be on the ball as a new captain, and fingers crossed you stay that way. I'm worried about new captains who were good at Sim and on the ball who let it go after they were done, became complacent, get fatigued and don't have the experience/the fo to handle a tough situation.
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