Where is this so called shortage

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bearitus
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by bearitus »

munzil wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:04 am
bearitus wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 am I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
I hope that the $50k you spent for someone to teach you how to study was worth it 8)
Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
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dialdriver
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by dialdriver »

Google it:

The Advantages of Educated Employees

"When you hire an educated employee, you receive an individual with a pre-existing skill set. In the process of acquiring an education, individuals develop their capacity to observe, analyze and act on information. In translating this ability the workplace, educated employees exhibit a greater aptitude for handling large, complex projects in a more productive and efficient manner as compared to their less-educated workers. In addition to the bonus of a pre-existing skill set, educated employees generally exhibit higher levels of motivation, which in turn leads to higher quality output and fewer errors."
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Zaibatsu »

dialdriver wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:10 am Google it:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I’m sorry, but is that what higher education does? I’m a better employee because I can google stuff!
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dialdriver
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by dialdriver »

Zaibatsu wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:26 am
dialdriver wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:10 am Google it:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I’m sorry, but is that what higher education does? I’m a better employee because I can google stuff!
You obviously don't fit the description.
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ehv8oar
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by ehv8oar »

Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
I also have an engineering degree and yes I also sometimes question why I decided to give up my engineering job for a Pilot job. It certainly wasn't a good move financially but in other ways it was.
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munzil
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by munzil »

bearitus wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:44 am
munzil wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:04 am
bearitus wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 am I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
I hope that the $50k you spent for someone to teach you how to study was worth it 8)
Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
I got a degree 30 years ago in economics and worked banking for 10 before becoming a pilot. No one ever asked to see my degree and I never needed it to do a well paid job. Since becoming a pilot no one has ever asked either. Lucky back then the government paid for most of it
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by jakeandelwood »

I was an automotive Mechanic before becoming a pilot and I found it really helped me with understanding systems, engines, hydraulics and electrical. I didn't even graduate from high school, I had no trouble with that stuff. Meteorology on the other hand I'm horrible with, I've never really fully understood it.
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KAG
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by KAG »

Laguardia wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:01 pm Long time lurker and I just couldn't help myself and decided to make an account and ask a question regarding this article

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviat ... ft-workers

Where on earth is this shortage and upcoming sever shortage? I have a cpl with a cat 1 IFR and around 300 hours, yet I can't seem to get a job... All I've gotten were several offers for ramp positions which I am refused given all these shortages I keep hearing of... What gives? They make it sound as if airlines are so desperate for pilots they should be knocking on the door of every pilot who's registered in TCs database...

Everytime I read an article like this it makes me sick... There's a shortage of pilots you say? Ok, how about stop making them work ramp first, then pay them a decent salary, not minimum wage (or lower if they can get away with it) and then don't work them to the bone by pushing 14 hour duty days. All this doing you're time on the ramp stuff is old news and ridiculous. For all those who say I had to do it years ago, suck it up and get over it... that was then, not now... I get that you're sour and had to put up with a bunch of BS but that's not anyone's fault, those were the circumstances

There's alot more things I can point out but it's pointless really as this post won't do much... I just feel like I needed to vent in an aviation forum setting... I have recently given up on trying to be a pilot as my career, too much garbage to put up with for not enough reward in my opinion... I also know way too many annoyed/depressed pilots who all they do is complain all the time, yet they have great paying jobs and are in a great position... Given a lot of these factors, I've happily settled for a fairly good paying job in a different field, with the potential to rise and make great money with none of the very high stressors that come with being a pilot for an airline... I'll keep flying for fun as a side hobby but it's just a damn shame it has to be this way for some

You could say I'm sour and pissed because I haven't gotten a job and it could just be me who's at fault... Well to those I say feel free to believe whatever you want :)
Stop whining, get an instructor rating, the jobs will fall at your feet. Get 1000 hours then complain if you cant get a job.
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laminar
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by laminar »

This thread makes me chuckle. What’s with all the hate for starting on the ramp? I spent 3 years on the ramp at CYYC while taking aeronautical engineering technology. During that time I worked with several people who moved onto successful careers as pilots, AMEs, structures technicians, etc. I even worked an additional year part time as a rampie just for fun at a flight school/charter outfit and watched several people progress from ramp to instructor and eventually charters in Navajos, Medevac flights in King Airs and up to Westjet and Air Canada

During my time at CYYC I noticed some elitist, smug pilots who would look down their noses at anyone who wasn’t a pilot like them (as if their role was so much more important than anyone else at the airport) and I noticed plenty of pilots who were the exact opposite. I was shocked at several Westjet pilots between 2000 and 2003 who would come outside onto the ramp and help load bags to minimize delays on the loaded flights while talking and joking around with rampies.

I personally feel working the ramp fosters a buildup of camaraderie between people who will branch off and end up in those pilot, AME, structures, and engineering roles without the thought of being better than others. Look at all the dick swinging of degree vs. non-degree in this thread LOL. Some of you should work the ramp together for a while!
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by jakeandelwood »

I know people that have degrees and some of them are the dumbest people I know, can't even figure out how to change a flat tire on their car and have never really accomplished anything. On the other hand I guys who I went to school with who dropped out in grade 10, went to work construction as a labourer, worked hard, slowly moved up and one now owns his own construction company and the other is a respected foreman, they have done very well for themselves. A degree means nothing in the end, it doesn't mean you are smarter or better.
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ehv8oar
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by ehv8oar »

Having a degree is nothing to do with meaning your smarter or better than somebody who doesn't have a degree, its just having an extended education in a particular subject and proving that you're capable of doing so.

If somebody was building a skyscraper next to my house I'd rather they had a degree in architecture and was totally incapable of changing a flat tire than the other way round.
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Rowdy
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Rowdy »

Interesting that this beaten to death topic of degree/no degree issue keeps coming up. WHO CARES!

How about we spend our time motivating our government to address the issues of flight and duty times, ATPL requirements and other avenues that will improve our industry instead?
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trey kule
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by trey kule »

Rowdy...

How much more do you suggest reducing the ATPL reqyuirements? :smt040
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Rowdy
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Rowdy »

trey kule wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:23 am Rowdy...

How much more do you suggest reducing the ATPL reqyuirements? :smt040
Good one! :rolleyes:

At present, the exams are all still carryovers from '85. How long til we can just freeze them with a bought type rating? haha
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by jakeandelwood »

ehv8oar wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:01 am Having a degree is nothing to do with meaning your smarter or better than somebody who doesn't have a degree, its just having an extended education in a particular subject and proving that you're capable of doing so.

If somebody was building a skyscraper next to my house I'd rather they had a degree in architecture and was totally incapable of changing a flat tire than the other way round.
I doubt you would find an architect on a any job site :lol:
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snoopythecaptain
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by snoopythecaptain »

When i was training for CPL i already saw this coming, so i saved for my instructor rating and i instructed for 6 months. When i had 500 i started to apply to jobs that used to required 1000+. And 2 weeks later i got a Medevac job northern ontario flying a pc12( you need 500+ for doing Ornge contact). Three of my co worker with 250 hrs got the same job i have but they had to do dispatcher job for 3-4 months before they go to flightline. So yes there is a pilot shortage, however it’s probably harder for 250 hrs guys to land their first job. I’ll suggest go out of your comfort zone and start meet people up north, show that you really want to be a pilot.
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ehv8oar
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by ehv8oar »

Lol I didn't mean actually building it ;)
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co-joe
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by co-joe »

KAG wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:46 am ...
Stop whining, get an instructor rating, the jobs will fall at your feet. Get 1000 hours then complain if you cant get a job.
KAG are you becoming a grumpy old man? I know I am, so not judging. ;)

It's easier now than it's ever been to get a job as a pilot, but that doesn't mean it's easy by any stretch of the imagination. This industry is like climbing a greased pole, and it probably always will be. You have to get out there and be stubborn, take whatever you can get and feel lucky you get anything.

IMO we will never experience and actual pilot shortage across the board at all levels, unless the US allows pilots to cross the border and work. If that glorious day ever comes, then 200 hour pilots will get jobs straight out of school.
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Sabre45
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by Sabre45 »

Sometimes the problem is in the Canadian attitude towards commercial aviation and pilots. In Europe, young pilots go through ab-initio programs and straight onto airlines, no ramp work required. If you join the Air Force, you will go from zero to primary flying / advanced training / heavy transport/tac-hel/fast jet . So a lot of it is about the training ethos and capability of the organization. In the rest of the World, pilots are trained to be professional pilots and fit into a professional environment from the beginning. You start to see this in Canada with 1000 or so hr pilots going to Regionals. Frankly some CP's or pilots make terrible training pilots, they lack the patience or confidence /competency to pass on appropriate knowledge. A young pilot should be allowed to fly. You want him/her to be safe, then let them fly and develop experience and competency, not have their initial skills atrophy on the docks. We all know Northern operators expect ramp time, loading and manual labour, it comes with the territory, so does below minimum wage salaries and abusive management. Its not the right way, but its the Canadian way. The trade off should be regular flying time. Young pilots getting their licenses should understand that this situation is not going to change anytime soon. It is the way it is. A young pilot can get his/her instructor rating, knock out 1000 hrs and try to shoot to regionals without northern time, which is what is happening around YYC. So it looks like pilots with some experience can bypass northern or bush work, BUT 200 hrs pilots looking for operational work? good luck. you still need to grunt it out in Canada. And you have it a lot better than in the mid 90's , you couldn't get a job if you offered to pay to clean the docks..I had to go to Africa, low pay, loading offloading 8 tons per day, but learned from senior Canadian Captains, and became proficient quickly in bush operations in challenging environments. It is what it is, but as a new pilot you are an overabundant commodity, with thousands of students being pumped out behind you, so move your rear and prepare to grunt, or get passed, its up to you. At 46 I still have no issues in helping loading aircraft, cleaning, general maintenance duties, helping clients etc. because it is part of the job in operational companies in Northern Canada, ruck up and get it done.
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homesick
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Re: Where is this so called shortage

Post by homesick »

Don't sell yourself short by going the way of the ramp. Those who did were just cheap whores who conveniently claim that that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I really can't differentiate between them and someone paying for their type rating. Call it tomayto or tomahto.

And please don't let these self proclaimed sky gods tell you that you are or will be a burden in the flight deck. We all started at hour zero and we all had captains who led and guided us through those first few hundred/thousand hours till we got our bearings right.

Unfortunately there really is no shortage. What there is is a shortage of experienced pilots willing to accept the piss poor TnCs that Canadian operators are willing to fork out for our knowledge and experience.

Good luck in your hunt for that elusive first job.
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