Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

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Outlaw58
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by Outlaw58 »

trey kule wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:34 am Aux bat..
..Its called establishing an alibi or creating reasonable doubt.

I expect we will eventually read here about how someone unfairly got their license pulled because they accidently and unkowningly, inadvertently were exposed to a whiff of pot smoke outside in a hurricane.
Also known as (at the risk of repeating myself) the Ross Rebagliati defense.

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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by mbav8r »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:12 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:00 am You've still consumed it inadvertently, or otherwise. While I agree that trace amounts need to be permitted for accidental exposure, I dont want to be the legal guinea pig.
Insurance companies don't consider you a smoker or cigarette user if you inhale second hand smoke. And after 12 hrs, if you're exposed to a high concentration of potent marijuana second hand smoke, you won't have traces of THC anymore,

The study I quoted discovered that being exposed to a less potent strain in the same smoke concentrations will result in clean results within 6 hrs.

And these tests were three smokers in an unventilated room, smoking up three times as much as they would in a single day within 3 hours. I strongly believe the hype is not warranted.
They were not clean, the amounts were not enough to fail a common drug test but still detectable, I don’t give a shit about how strongly you feel, the risk is still there.
Trey Kule, you don’t know me but I can assure you I’m not setting an alibi, I detest the smell of it and also despise the idiots walking around stoned, big waste of skin if you ask me.
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trey kule
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by trey kule »

Mb8v

None of my comments were directed towards you.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by rookiepilot »

Lightchop wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:57 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 pm
CpnCrunch wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:54 pm

That's just profit taking...they are still great businesses, it's just that the smart money got in there long ago and is getting out now. I guess I should have bought it when I saw their Gulfstream parked next to me on the ramp a few years ago, next to Costco's Gulfstream. Seems to be a good indicator of a business that is generating tons of cash.

No thanks. And no, it isn't.
My bank account and TFSA disagrees.
How's that working for you lately?
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Lightchop
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by Lightchop »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:22 pm
Lightchop wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:57 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 pm


No thanks. And no, it isn't.
My bank account and TFSA disagrees.
How's that working for you lately?
I'm still up in the hundreds of percent since 2016.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by rookiepilot »

Lightchop wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:04 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:22 pm
Lightchop wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:57 pm

My bank account and TFSA disagrees.
How's that working for you lately?
I'm still up in the hundreds of percent since 2016.
It's amazing how often I hear that. If it's not bombardier it's pot stocks.
Everyone buys their load at the absolute low tick!
Fascinating how that works.
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shimmydampner
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by shimmydampner »

trey kule wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:02 am It must be a hell of a high for pilots to risk their career for it.
And it must be great to be some of the weak-willed, sweaty, fat f***s that I see flying airplanes, if they're willing to risk their career for a life of laziness and gluttony.
The point you're missing is that you shouldn't have to risk your career for engaging in a legal activity just because the powers that be couldn't be bothered to establish a framework for what constitutes impairment versus a positive indication of past impairment. All this pearl clutching about the prospect of some pilots wanting to engage in a legal activity that YOU disagree with is just puritanical silliness; pissing into the winds of changing times. Given the current reality of legality that we live in, your energy would be better spent advocating for a science based framework that will provide guidance for those that choose to partake, so that they can do so responsibly.
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Lightchop
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by Lightchop »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:18 pm
Lightchop wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:04 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:22 pm

How's that working for you lately?
I'm still up in the hundreds of percent since 2016.
It's amazing how often I hear that. If it's not bombardier it's pot stocks.
Everyone buys their load at the absolute low tick!
Fascinating how that works.
I certainly didn't buy at the lowest, but I did get in before the industry was on a lot of people's radar and have been slowly adding to my positions for over two years. But then again funny how I don't really care that much what you think. Fascinating how that works.
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trey kule
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by trey kule »

Shimmy.

First of all, your well thought out, balanced response was amazing.

The fact is despite your puritanical reference, my opinion was based , primarily , on practability.
Whatever the reason, at this time if you test positive, bye bye license.
You can personally attack me. You can compare it to fat pilots, or compare it to other evils, that, in your opinion, are much worse.
Appear for your medical overweight and it is not going to necessarily mean a loss of license.

All the comparisons, marganilizing of those who disagree, will not make a stick of difference right now if you test positive.

I do not expect you to understand, but I do hope by offerring an opposing perspective, that some of the youngins here will realize that smoking pot right now can be career ending despite all the pro smokers.
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shimmydampner
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by shimmydampner »

Trey, I was not marginalizing you, nor am I pro smoking weed, in the sense that legal or not, I'm not really very interested in it personally. And I do understand the point that you are making that total abstinence is the only sure fire way to keep yourself out of career trouble at the moment. But that's akin to telling young teenagers that the only 100% effective way to avoid the responsibility of unplanned parenthood is to abstain from sex entirely; technically true but probably not going to happen, regardless of whether or not you approve.
Like it or not, it's legal now and if a person wants to partake, they should be allowed to and there should be some guidance in place for them to do so responsibly with regards to their work place duties. We are allowed to partake in the consumption of alcohol (even though its long list of negative effects are well documented) and there is guidance on being free from impairment. I think that the powers that be have some responsibility to provide that guidance. My comment about obesity was simply to point out that there are many many different ways in which 99% of pilots are not ensuring that they are as fit for duty as they possibly could be every day they show up for work. But, most are responsible enough to show up with a clear conscience that while they may not be at their absolute physical and mental peak, they are indeed still fit for the duties they are about to undertake. And I think that most would still carry that responsibility through to consuming legal marijuana. Surely there is some scientific safe area between the edge of impairment and total abstinence that responsible people could inhabit if they so choose.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by goingnowherefast »

What is this logic doing on avcanada?! Usually this is the place for ridiculous statements/arguments and an old retired guy to inflate his ego. Not often is there a properly thought out, reasonable and logical post like the one from shimmydampner above.
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by mbav8r »

Shimmy,
As I previously mentioned I am against the use of pot in a professional position, that being said pot is just now legal and testing of the negative effects have been limited to this point due to it being illegal until just recently. You point out the long list of negative effects of alcohol are well documented, that is the point isn’t it, they know how long the average person takes to metabolize alcohol based on years of data.
I imagine some time down the road things will change but until enough data is there to show how impaired you are and proper field test are available the safest course is abstinence.
I still have a huge problem with Ontario allowing people to smoke it in public places, besides the potential to affect a random career ending test, it makes no sense to allow people to get stupid high in public but drinking is not allowed.
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C-GGGQ
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by C-GGGQ »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:00 am Shimmy,
As I previously mentioned I am against the use of pot in a professional position, that being said pot is just now legal and testing of the negative effects have been limited to this point due to it being illegal until just recently. You point out the long list of negative effects of alcohol are well documented, that is the point isn’t it, they know how long the average person takes to metabolize alcohol based on years of data.
I imagine some time down the road things will change but until enough data is there to show how impaired you are and proper field test are available the safest course is abstinence.
I still have a huge problem with Ontario allowing people to smoke it in public places, besides the potential to affect a random career ending test, it makes no sense to allow people to get stupid high in public but drinking is not allowed.
Well lucky for you since they decided on letting people get high in public they are also talking about lifting the ban on alcohol in parks and public places
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shimmydampner
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by shimmydampner »

I certainly can't disagree with any of your points. The thing is, it's not as though the effects of cannabis have not been studied before. It's been known for quite a long time how it affects the brain, produces a "high", impairs various functions, gets metabolized over time, etc. I am obviously not a scientist, nor do I consider myself highly knowledgeable about this topic, but my guess would be that there exists enough baseline data to have pointed scientists in the right direction with regards to exploring the questions surrounding impairment. Legalization was on the horizon for quite some time. Long enough, one would think, to have pursued scientific answers to these questions. It seems very irresponsible that they are still unanswered, especially as they relate to safety sensitive positions. In my opinion, the lack of data has lead to a lack of guidance which in turn will lead to law abiding, responsible citizens not being able to exercise a personal freedom, not because doing so would be personally irresponsible, but because those who set the rules for that freedom, shirked a major part of their responsibility in making it legal in the first place.
Sure, we can all agree, don't get stoned and you'll never be impaired and you won't have any resulting problems that follow. But a reasonable person would probably agree that, even if we don't have the exact data yet, if you do get stoned, at some point in the future, you will cease to be impaired. In the absence of hard science, different people will have different ideas about what that point is, based on their own personal feelings about the substance. A pro cannabis person might feel like they are not impaired the day after smoking a joint. A weed teetotaler might say that because it remains in that person's fat cells for say, a month, they are impaired for the duration. Either might be right. Either might be wrong. I don't know. But this can't be based on uneducated guesses, and the scientific truth probably lies somewhere in between. Err too far on the first side, and you might infringe on the right of the public to safe air transportation. Go too far the other way and you might be infringing on someone's personal freedom.
I don't think it's good enough to say, just don't do it. That's accepting that large numbers of the population are not afforded the same personal freedom as everyone else. What we really need is to know is, where is the reasonable, science based line between my personal freedom and the right of the public to safe air transportation, because it does exist somewhere.
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shimmydampner
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Re: Air Canada and Westjet...what a joke

Post by shimmydampner »

The smoking/drinking in public thing is a whole other tricky subject, not really related to aviation. I personally don't enjoy seeing either in public, but if you can't smoke inside, what do you do? One thing is for sure, if I had a choice been encountering a stranger stoned in public, versus a drunk, I'll take the stoner.
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