COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

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digits_
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by digits_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 am

CanadianBird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am
Precisely. So, why not attempt to prevent these situations with a background check? Why not prevent/protect COPA, and other organizations from lawsuits, because they didn't provide "adequate checks"? That's exactly what this is trying to do.
I can offer you insurance to protect your kids! For a one time 50 CAD fee, I will cover any damage your kids might ever experience in their lifetime caused by a wild lion attack in Canada. Not only that, our company has proprietary techniques to make sure no kid in Canada ever falls victim to a wild lion in Canada. Join now and be protected for a lifetime.

Are you interested? Probably not.

Why not? Do you not care about the safety of your kids?
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C.W.E.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by C.W.E. » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:19 am

Precisely. So, why not attempt to prevent these situations with a background check? Why not prevent/protect COPA, and other organizations from lawsuits, because they didn't provide "adequate checks"? That's exactly what this is trying to do.

Maybe I am really out of touch with today's society and the way things work.

When I was in the flying business and we offered kids rides the people who brought their kids for the free rides were generally local people who we knew and they knew us.

It they had fears that we were child molesters they would not have risked their kids with us.

In my opinion this asking for a background check s window dressing because the checks are far from fool proof.

Why doesn't COPA also check to make sure their wife's are safe around us as well as their children, if you are going to be suspicious why not cover all bases?
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Last edited by C.W.E. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blakey
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Blakey » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:20 am

digits_ wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 am
CanadianBird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am
Precisely. So, why not attempt to prevent these situations with a background check? Why not prevent/protect COPA, and other organizations from lawsuits, because they didn't provide "adequate checks"? That's exactly what this is trying to do.
I can offer you insurance to protect your kids! For a one time 50 CAD fee, I will cover any damage your kids might ever experience in their lifetime caused by a wild lion attack in Canada. Not only that, our company has proprietary techniques to make sure no kid in Canada ever falls victim to a wild lion in Canada. Join now and be protected for a lifetime.

Are you interested? Probably not.

Why not? Do you not care about the safety of your kids?
You might want to raise your rates a bit!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/flo ... story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/30/us/lion- ... index.html
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digits_
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by digits_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:25 am

Blakey wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:20 am
digits_ wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 am
CanadianBird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am
Precisely. So, why not attempt to prevent these situations with a background check? Why not prevent/protect COPA, and other organizations from lawsuits, because they didn't provide "adequate checks"? That's exactly what this is trying to do.
I can offer you insurance to protect your kids! For a one time 50 CAD fee, I will cover any damage your kids might ever experience in their lifetime caused by a wild lion attack in Canada. Not only that, our company has proprietary techniques to make sure no kid in Canada ever falls victim to a wild lion in Canada. Join now and be protected for a lifetime.

Are you interested? Probably not.

Why not? Do you not care about the safety of your kids?
You might want to raise your rates a bit!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/flo ... story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/30/us/lion- ... index.html
That's why I specified wild lion attack. An escaped zoo lion is not a wild lion. But thank you for checking though :D
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by aeroncasuperchief » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:50 pm

An escaped zoo lion is not a wild lion.
The nine yr old who gets his leg chewed on might differ ! :roll:
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:21 am

CanadianBird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:28 am
Precisel y. So, why not attempt to prevent these situations with a background check? Why not prevent/protect COPA, and other organizations from lawsuits, because they didn't provide "adequate checks"? That's exactly what this is trying to do.
Because it's doing it in the least effective way it could possibly do it. Require it for *all* participants, so you cover all the bases. If you have to pick a smaller group to start with the excuse that you have to make it "palatable", you're already saying that this isn't a great method for preventing issues.

If you want to target a smaller group with a greater success rate, require checks for the ground crew... They spend multiple hours with each kid, and the pilot spends at best 20 minutes. The ground crew can be any club member who walks in off the street after hearing that there will be an event with lots of kids present... They risk very little by attending.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by C-GKNT » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:46 am

AirFrame wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:21 am
...
If you want to target a smaller group with a greater success rate, require checks for the ground crew... They spend multiple hours with each kid, and the pilot spends at best 20 minutes. The ground crew can be any club member who walks in off the street after hearing that there will be an event with lots of kids present... They risk very little by attending.
My 13 year old ran the ground portion of our last C4K rally. She had the most experience of all the ground crew volunteers having attended these events starting in utero. I guess she would need VS check as well :rolleyes:

I understand what you are saying. I'm not sure how any of these checks are going to prevent something that as far as I know has never happened yet but insurance requirements run the modern world and WTFDIK.

Glenn
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by HotelTangoBravo » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:23 pm

This seems a little overboard... A cereal killer, flying children around... I mean crazier things have happen on this globe. If you even have a criminal record like that can you even get a pilots license?
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by jakeandelwood » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:28 pm

I got my pilots licence and 2 commercial flying jobs with a criminal record. It was a dangerous driving charge from when I was 19, no one hurt just me being a stupid 19 year old. A fine and a license suspension was all I got. Completely forgot I had it until it came up when I applied for my 3rd flying job when I was in my late 30's, guess they ran a check, then I just got a pardon for it. - don't know if a police check shows what the person did to get the records whether minor or severe.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by JasonE » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:33 pm

I likely will not even renew my COPA membership this year.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Hockaloogie » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:53 pm

HotelTangoBravo wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:23 pm
A cereal killer, flying children around...
I've killed a lot of cereal in my day... shredded wheat, raisin bran, frosted flakes... guess I better not put any kids in the plane.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:49 pm

JasonE:

Why take it out on COPA? They're just doing what is required by their insurer.

That's like not going to your doctor any more because your insurance company wants you to get "Driver's Medical" when you turn 80.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:10 pm

Schooner69A wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:49 pm
They're just doing what is required by their insurer.
.....and This thread is STILL alive.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by HotelTangoBravo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:56 pm

Hockaloogie wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:53 pm
HotelTangoBravo wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:23 pm
A cereal killer, flying children around...
I've killed a lot of cereal in my day... shredded wheat, raisin bran, frosted flakes... guess I better not put any kids in the plane.
Hahahaha wow. Well that too I guess... ***Serial***
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by jakeandelwood » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:37 am

That's like not going to your doctor any more because your insurance company wants you to get "Driver's Medical" when you turn 80.
[/quote]

That damn doctor, I'll show him!
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by digits_ » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:23 am

Now that summer is in full swing, how are the pilot participant numbers at the COPA for kids events? Stable? Decrease? Increase?
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by AirFrame » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:48 am

We were down two planes at our latest CFK. From 7 to 5. 4 of the 5 already had VSC done through their various day jobs so they didn't have to do anything.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by whistlerboy02 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:51 pm

We cancelled ours due to the hassle of background checks for the pilots
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by C-GKNT » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:09 pm

We have one this weekend. Normally can get 8-10 pilots/aircraft, only have 4 at this time. It was rescheduled from 2 weeks ago (not related to the VSC) but this gave one of our pilots extra time to get his VSC otherwise we would only have 3.

The June COPA magazine "President's Corner" stated clearly this was NOT a requirement from the insurer/Sponsor AIG but rather an internal decision. :smt013

Glenn
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Heliian » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm

I would say the losses have more to do with people being busy and too self involved to bother. People here complaining how a quick piece of paper from the cops is too overbearing.

GENERAL AVIATION IS DYING OUT.

It's too expensive for more and more people, people are also too busy with too many other things. At least there is now statistically less criminals flying kids around, I can't see any other reason to avoid getting a check.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by rigpiggy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:01 pm

as previously posted, it is not at least for some of us a quick and easy piece of paper.

I have done it several times. It goes on birthdate and sex, since you can change your name, but not your birthday"wonder about the sex thing" thanks Trudeau I did it first for medevacs, and found out, lo and behold I have the same birthdate. Followed by an appointment how many weeks later" after the file comes back, "I told you just book the appt." to go back down and give your fingerprints. "then wait another 2 or so weeks for the quick and easy paper taking around 6 weeks" new addendum.

I had kids in 3 schools +cadets, choir etc...... I have to go down and do it 4 times"because they can't simply do it once for the year" I no longer volunteer.......
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by Schooner69A » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Our club just finished a mini-C4K last week-end and have another scheduled for mid-July.

Luckily for us, most of our pilots realize that it's about the children and not them.

Regardless of all the arguments against only having the pilots doing it, or having to do it at all, you either want to participate or you don't.

Those who were doing it reluctantly in the past have found an ideal reason to not step up to the plate now; they're 'Standing on principle'.

BS.
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by digits_ » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:51 pm

Heliian wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm

GENERAL AVIATION IS DYING OUT.
So more paperwork is the solution?
Heliian wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm

At least there is now statistically less criminals flying kids around, I can't see any other reason to avoid getting a check.
I'd say there are more.

Innocent volunteers don't want to bother or are -rightfully in this case IMO- offended and don't want to do it for a plethora of reasons. Pervert pilots who want to touch kids but haven't been caught yet, will go through the extra trouble of getting the check done.
Schooner69A wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Those who were doing it reluctantly in the past have found an ideal reason to not step up to the plate now;
If all "reluctant volunteers" would quit, very few non profit organisations would survive.
Schooner69A wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Luckily for us, most of our pilots realize that it's about the children and not them.
Yes, think about the children!
You put a child in a 60 year old privately maintained airplane with a pilot that is probably about the same age and hasn't seen an examiner or checkride in 40 years. But the biggest safety issue is that he might touch your kid! :rolleyes:
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:40 am

Heliian wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm
I would say the losses have more to do with people being busy and too self involved to bother. People here complaining how a quick piece of paper from the cops is too overbearing.

GENERAL AVIATION IS DYING OUT.

It's too expensive for more and more people, people are also too busy with too many other things. At least there is now statistically less criminals flying kids around, I can't see any other reason to avoid getting a check.
"Too self involved" ? People are donating their time! People have lives! Why would anyone bother donating their time when it keeps getting more difficult for them to do so?
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Re: COPA for Kids pilots now require police check

Post by ctmorawetz » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:27 am

Our biggest obstacle at CYTZ wasn’t the VSC, it was the weather! On our rain date for our C4K we had 4 airplanes fly over 50 kids around downtown Toronto. We would have had a fifth airplane, but it was grounded from a maintenance snag.

The process for getting a VSC in Toronto is a huge pain in the @$$, but the pilots and other volunteers remembered who C4K is really about...the kids!

Clark Morawetz
COPA Director - Southern Ontario
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