MERGED power curve / floats posts

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C.W.E.
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by C.W.E. »

There is nothing wrong with your technique especially in that it is what you are most comfortable with.

I can't remember if I ever used the slip on approach method as my teachers taught me the crab method and pointed out how natural crabbing s as you are flying with the controls balanced and not sitting at an angle to your flight path and being pushed sideways in the seat.

However we all have different likes and dislikes and as long as safety is not compromised what ever technique works for each of us is O.K.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

Aviatard wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:08 am
aeroncasuperchief wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:42 pm In 2018, Teachers teach to the minimum.
Nonsense.
aeroncasuperchief wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:42 pm PS: If the weather aint CAVOK, students don't fly in these days :roll:
More nonsense.

OKAY, It looks like I got told ! :o
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C.W.E.
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by C.W.E. »

While we are on the subject of what they are taught I would like to comment on the most annoying things they are not taught based on what I observed during my flight training career.

Using brakes to control taxi speed and not reducing power.

Chasing the airspeed needle in the climb resulting in a roller coaster path.

Failure to level off properly.

Inability to judge height above the runway when landing.

Those were the most common faults I observed.

Now I have a question.

How are they issued a PPL if they can not fly the aircraft properly?
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youhavecontrol
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by youhavecontrol »

C.W.E. wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:38 pm While we are on the subject of what they are taught I would like to comment on the most annoying things they are not taught based on what I observed during my flight training career.

Using brakes to control taxi speed and not reducing power.

Chasing the airspeed needle in the climb resulting in a roller coaster path.

Failure to level off properly.

Inability to judge height above the runway when landing.

Those were the most common faults I observed.

Now I have a question.

How are they issued a PPL if they can not fly the aircraft properly?
If I had a dollar for every time I had to say, "reduce the power FIRST before applying the brakes to slow down," I could probably afford an extra vacation every year. Every item you listed is most definitely taught by good instructors at least... but after that PPL license is in their hands, it's anyone's guess how long it takes for dumb habits to show up again. I often hop into the Seminole with students and have to re-teach them how to taxi, use trim, level-off... all that stuff. For some reason, it's a new plane and they seem to think new rules must apply.
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Blakey
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by Blakey »

C.W.E. wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:54 pm There is nothing wrong with your technique especially in that it is what you are most comfortable with.

I can't remember if I ever used the slip on approach method as my teachers taught me the crab method and pointed out how natural crabbing s as you are flying with the controls balanced and not sitting at an angle to your flight path and being pushed sideways in the seat.

However we all have different likes and dislikes and as long as safety is not compromised what ever technique works for each of us is O.K.
I find the "slipping on approach" to be better when learning as it is merely a matter of increasing the deflection during the flare and landing. The only time I use it now is if the crosswind is such that I'm not sure I will have enough control authority to stay on the centerline after landing. If I need full control deflection to maintain track on approach, chances are I need to find another runway to land on!
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

Blakey wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:33 am
C.W.E. wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:54 pm There is nothing wrong with your technique especially in that it is what you are most comfortable with.

I can't remember if I ever used the slip on approach method as my teachers taught me the crab method and pointed out how natural crabbing s as you are flying with the controls balanced and not sitting at an angle to your flight path and being pushed sideways in the seat.

However we all have different likes and dislikes and as long as safety is not compromised what ever technique works for each of us is O.K.
I find the "slipping on approach" to be better when learning as it is merely a matter of increasing the deflection during the flare and landing. The only time I use it now is if the crosswind is such that I'm not sure I will have enough control authority to stay on the centerline after landing. If I need full control deflection to maintain track on approach, chances are I need to find another runway to land on!
Very useful information Blakey!

I am sure that the pundits here will disagree.... shoot me an email when you have a chance. We might be able to grab a coffee!
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noflex
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by noflex »

This guy thinks he’s a test pilot.
Dream on Flarewrongcasuperqueef.

Best troll yet
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Meatservo
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by Meatservo »

noflex wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:54 pm This guy thinks he’s a test pilot.
Dream on Flarewrongcasuperqueef.

Best troll yet
"Flare Wrongca Super Queef"....

I don't care what anybody else thinks of this insult. You, my friend, are in the wrong business. You should be writing for "South Park". There are lots of pilots in the world. This kind of genius only appears once or twice a generation.
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Oldguystrtn2fly
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by Oldguystrtn2fly »

Agreed. Well done.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

This guy thinks he’s a test pilot.
I know what/who I am and I am NOT a career test pilot, As mentioned before, it is 1 of my duties in my job description . For those too ignorant to understand, Not all pilots who "test" A/C wear those $365.00 Ray-bans, the $2000.00 flight suit, Tom Cruise flight helmet, and a certificate from so-and-so test flying school. Some of US AMEs / Commercial pilots have a duty to test Aircraft post maintenance, when mods have been done , to prove a newly assembled A/C , even aft an engine has been overhauled! I DO have pretty blue eyes, so that totally qualifies me to test fly ANY A/C on this planet :lol:
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PilotDAR
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by PilotDAR »

Some of US AMEs / Commercial pilots have a duty to test Aircraft post maintenance, when mods have been done , to prove a newly assembled A/C , even aft an engine has been overhauled!
As clarified for me by Test Pilots who supervised the design approval test flying I have done, post maintenance "test" flying is more correctly referred to as a "check flight". A test flight is flown in accordance with a flight test plan, which probably has been approved by Transport Canada. A purpose of a test flight may be to determine a characteristic which is not known. A maintenance check flight is flown to confirm an aircraft is airworthy as already expected, though can only be confirmed in flight. For example, setting up the stall warning horn following the installation of a STOL kit is not "test flying", it's just maintenance. If you go flying, and find it's correct, it's a maintenance check flight.

That said, having done decades of both those types of flying, maintenance check flying can be every bit a demanding (and risky :shock: ) as formal test flying. I think I've had more scares during maintenance check flights than test flights.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

I guess I will need to amend my JLB entries to check flight satisfactory from test flight satisfactory then !
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

test flight
/ˈtes(t) ˌflīt/Submit
noun
a flight during which the performance of an aircraft or its equipment is tested.
Test flight definition: the first flight of a plane or rocket for the purposes of testing its equipment | Meaning, pronunciation, translations and examples.
an occasion when a plane or rocket (=vehicle for travelling into space) is flown for the first time in order to test its equipment.

To me and these foolish dictionaries, a test flight is a flight to test ( STUFF ) If I took my wife to 6000 feet and made love to her , I would qualify it as a test flight .. A flight to test whether or not I could make love to her at 6000 feet ! :roll:

A check flight is a flight to check, check what? A test flight is a flight to test, test what?

Gee, according to the dictionaries, the second or third flight cannot be a test flight !
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

test1
/test/Submit
noun
1.
a procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something, especially before it is taken into widespread use.
flight
/flīt/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of flying through the air.

Test flight :
Credits: NASA. a flight made to test an aircraft, rocket or spacecraft.
I feel like I am trying to teach a baby how to crawl !
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by PilotDAR »

I feel like I am trying to teach a baby how to crawl !
Teach what, that I should disregard what the Flight Test Department tells me in favour of an AME/pilot on the internet?
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trey kule
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by trey kule »

Pilot Dar.

I would expect mr. wannabe test pilot has no idea what PilotDar refers to, or that we are laughing at him.

And while I do enjoy laughing at his posts (and him) I have to wonder sometimes the pathology of trolls. Do they really think they are fooling anyone? Anyway, cut him some slack...he obviously needs it. Maybe even start a bo fund me page to buy him a T shirt that says. “I am a test pilot because I think I am “
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floatman
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by floatman »

photofly wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:46 pm No. Classical crosswind takeoff technique is to start the roll ailerons into the wind, smoothly bringing them them to arrive at neutral aileron when the airspeed reaches five or so knots faster than a regular takeoff speed with a small amount of forward pressure, then back elevator to crisply unstick the aircraft from the ground with level wings, after which one allows or assists the aircraft to nose into the relative airflow and assume a crab which represents coordinated flight, tracking the runway centreline.
This may open a can of worms with some float pilots but it hasn't been mentioned yet so I'll chime in.

When on a runway on amphibs, I will use the method as above but with the ailerons maintained slightly into wind, however I have been using another technique for years on SE float planes.

When I have a tight space and good breeze (a right crosswind is preferable since the weathervane effect balances out or counteracts the p-factor and asymmetric exhaust thrust in some airplanes) I will start the slide into wind in order to assist in getting on the step and then gently start a turn away from the wind (to the left in this case) with the ailerons still neutral. This is done by just releasing a bit of the right rudder that you are using to keep it straight. (you are managing the direction with your feet alone). You will then be in a slight (or more) left turn, basically carving a left-hand arc with ailerons still neutral. You are waiting to feel that slight pickup from the upwind-side wing/float. As soon as you feel the upwind float starting to lift, you simply allow it to happen and bump the ailerons right to pop the left float out. You are now nicely in a crab back into wind and you fly it out with wings level.

This is definitely not something to try for new float pilots as it is what I would consider an advanced technique, requiring great familiarity with the particular airplane you are flying as well as an acute awareness of what the float actually breaking the water feels like. It should also not be done in extremely gusty winds for the obvious reasons. This was taught to me by a very experienced individual and I have been using it successfully for decades. It is hard to quantify exactly, but I would guess that I can get an aircraft off the water 20% quicker (in a 208 amphib, maybe 5-6 seconds) using this procedure than by using a method of just picking a line and positioning ailerons into wind for a "normal" crosswind technique. When space is a factor, 5 or 6 seconds is huge and can mean the difference of using a line that doesn't require you to taxi for another 10 minutes to get back into wind or having to take a straight cross-wind.

Just a bit of food for thought.
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

On the backside argument, I quote sources and my own experience. Concerning a simple phrase, I quote sources. I am happy to agree with many pilots who have an "industry" definition of test flight and check flight . I guess I am a check pilot If I only do a check flight BUT then doesn't that confuse people who are REAL check pilots ( checking other pilots out? ) In the end, I am check flying while in the company of people who think that, and test flying in the company of people who thinks that! And those who want to argue, make fun of and attempt character assassination over nothing , I couldn't care less :wink:
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

This may open a can of worms with some float pilots but it hasn't been mentioned yet so I'll chime in.

When on a runway on amphibs, I will use the method as above but with the ailerons maintained slightly into wind, however I have been using another technique for years on SE float planes.

When I have a tight space and good breeze (a right crosswind is preferable since the weathervane effect balances out or counteracts the p-factor and asymmetric exhaust thrust in some airplanes) I will start the slide into wind in order to assist in getting on the step and then gently start a turn away from the wind (to the left in this case) with the ailerons still neutral. This is done by just releasing a bit of the right rudder that you are using to keep it straight. (you are managing the direction with your feet alone). You will then be in a slight (or more) left turn, basically carving a left-hand arc with ailerons still neutral. You are waiting to feel that slight pickup from the upwind-side wing/float. As soon as you feel the upwind float starting to lift, you simply allow it to happen and bump the ailerons right to pop the left float out. You are now nicely in a crab back into wind and you fly it out with wings level.

.
Yes, I recall using that technique in a light to moderate crosswind ( NOT gusty) when taking off tight to an island ( in basic calm) to stay out of the rollers coming down the long lake. You really must know the wind as you hit the end of the island , because the combination of that increase in windspeed and the rocking rollers, can assist you, with your up-wind wing raised, It can also quickly leave you with a submerged A/C. Right after take-off, the upwind wing gets lowered to slight wing low position ( in case a wind lull decides to set you on the rollers!) Again, I suggest that this technique is not for the green float pilot. As a rule, I have avoided taking off and landing in big crosswind rollers on a big lake. ( Too risky)
As mentioned before, I have done your type of take-off and this one also . Bravo that pilots are learning advanced maneuvers ! :D
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aeroncasuperchief
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Re: MERGED power curve / floats posts

Post by aeroncasuperchief »

It is acceptable to do tailwind, crosswind, headwind take-offs, Tail to cross TO cross to into wind TO into to cross, cross to tail etc take-offs, Yall just need to know the procedure and do it within limitations. On a small lake , many amplified procedures can and are used
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