Death of Paper Maps?

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flyguychevy
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Death of Paper Maps?

Post by flyguychevy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:56 am

Are paper maps for XC planning and Nav Logs dying? especially in flight training now or is it just me?
Being exposed to apps like fltplan go, foreflight, garmin pilot etc where you just plug in your departure and arrival airport and it calculates everything for you why should the "modern day" student have to painstakingly use a wizzwheel and nav log especially in the "real world" where efb's are used, whats the point? even on checkrides students can use ipad's for the nav portion (atleast in the US not sure about canada). whats your opinion?
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pelmet
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by pelmet » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:06 am

flyguychevy wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:56 am
whats your opinion?
For VFR flying.....I like paper maps but I will admit that ipad style stuff is handy sometimes.
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fish4life
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by fish4life » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:05 am

I think half the point of learning to calculate manually is to give yourself the ability to “sniff test” the data foreflight etc gives you. If you do a bunch of manual calculations you can look at what the software puts out and make sure it seems reasonable.
I’m not saying you need to manually calculate every time but until you can roughly estimate what the answer (heading for wind correction, headwind / tailwind, fuel burn for the trip) will be then you should stay on the manual calcs as well.
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laminar
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by laminar » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:29 am

I have my iPhone with flight plan go in the cockpit as an emergency tool but I use paper maps only. I’m VFR only, but I really enjoy working with paper! My thumb is 6sm wide for distance calculations. I don’t see the need in my case for foreflight unless I start doing longer trips or going for IFR.
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by ZBBYLW » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:34 am

At work we have an ipad with Jepps all loaded up plus slme otger handy apps.

When I am flying for fun I am pretty old school, yes I use a GPS if available but i primarily reference paper VNC or VTAs as well as a CFS. I dont do any IFR flying for fun so no need for any approach plates.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:00 pm

Sales of paper charts are way down so I think their days are numbered. I have not bought a new paper chart since I got a Foreflight subscription 5 years ago. Ironically the one paper chart i still use is my old WAC's which I find are still the best way for preliminary route planning for longer VFR flights as electronic charts get less useful as you zoom out. Of course WAC's are no longer available so I am hanging on to my legacy WAC collection for as long as they hold up.

I don't go for the the idea that electronic charts are bad in training. You just have to make sure the student has mastered the ability to estimate bearings, courses and speed time distance problems. Asking the right questions is the trick and making a point of doing a TLAR (That Looks About Right) check on everything you see generated by the screen magic........
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JasonE
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by JasonE » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:48 pm

Occasionally I still pull out a paper map and use it. I did a cross country flight this summer in a 172 with no GPS or nav aids, just paper! It really makes you pay more attention to your surroundings. I even purchased every paper map from Ontario to NS last year for my trip as a backup. I am unlikely to buy another copy until they are significantly out of date as they are only backups.
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RatherBeFlying
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by RatherBeFlying » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Sometimes I think I'm the only glider pilot in Canada who carries a current paper chart. These days the flight computer knows the airspace and can be more current than the chart.

Haven't seen any inspectors at a glider field, but the jungle drums are thrumming.
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trey kule
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by trey kule » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:50 pm

Paper charts and E6Bs are as important now as they ever were.

No ipad can block the sun as well as a map. And ipads are to delicate to replace the E6B as a weight to hold down maps in turbulence.
Nope, its maps and the old metal E6B in the leather case for me.

Btw. How long until no more paper CFS?
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C.W.E.
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by C.W.E. » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:45 pm

Yup.

Plastic credit cards.

Paper maps.

Packet of rubbers.
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TT1900
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by TT1900 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:38 pm

Both have their advantages and EFB’s are certainly becoming more popular but paper is far from dead.

Paper doesn’t wash-out in direct bright sunlight. Paper also doesn’t care when it’s -40, unlike an IPad. I always carry paper, even if it’s just as a back-up.
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trey kule
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by trey kule » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:59 pm

-40! You should be talking with the maintenance folks to get more heat in the cockpit.
You might to take note of CWEs suggestion as to the importance of a plastic credit card.
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AirFrame
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by AirFrame » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:20 am

I still buy paper maps, but I use my tablet more often in the cockpit. I like having the backup.
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fish4life
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by fish4life » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:37 am

I don't think many airlines have paper anymore
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HiFlyChick
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by HiFlyChick » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:04 pm

trey kule wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:50 pm
...No ipad can block the sun as well as a map...
Haha - I was gonna say the same thing!

Also, on a number of occasions I've worn my map like a poncho when the sun was blazing in on me and I felt like a Swiss Chalet chicken on its rotisserie (well, minus the turning part)

When your maps expire, then you can use them as cool wrapping paper :)

And finally, when you want to kill flies in the cockpit, try smashing your ipad against the windscreen and you'll wish you had've kept that good old paper map!
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pelmet
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by pelmet » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 pm

trey kule wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:59 pm
-40! You should be talking with the maintenance folks to get more heat in the cockpit.
You might to take note of CWEs suggestion as to the importance of a plastic credit card.

I just wonder how well his rubbers work if they are at -40.
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trey kule
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by trey kule » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:25 pm

Why would anyone wear rubbers at -40? That particular type of footware is designed for rainy days, not cold days.
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MrWings
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by MrWings » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:53 am

I'm sure that when the calculator first came out, some people refused to buy one and proclaimed the ease of the battery independent slide rule.
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linecrew
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by linecrew » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:40 am

MrWings wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:53 am
I'm sure that when the calculator first came out, some people refused to buy one and proclaimed the ease of the battery independent slide rule.
But your brain is the backup if the calculator fails. What's your backup if you are in in unfamiliar territory and your EFB fails, and you have no maps? Just playing devil's advocate.
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Heliian
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by Heliian » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:53 am

Not dead yet, not everyone gives a shit about foreflight and ipads. Sure in the commercial sector, companies have efb's and whatnot but most GA pilots aren't going to run out and buy an ipad and all the extra crap and mounts so they can stare at the little plane symbol while doing circuits on the weekend. I liken it to putting a glass cockpit in an old aircraft, it looks good but there is really no need for it.

When I was travelling around the north, I always had paper copies along with 2 onboard gps and a 3rd handheld one. It's more about planning and preparedness, it's great to have if you need it. God forbid we have another GPS outage as there would be dozens of lost airplanes flying around aimlessly.

You would be amazed at the amount of pilots that don't know how to use basic radio nav aids too.
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digits_
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by digits_ » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:54 am

Heliian wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:53 am
but most GA pilots aren't going to run out and buy an ipad and all the extra crap and mounts so they can stare at the little plane symbol while doing circuits on the weekend.
You'd be surprised, but that is exactly what is happening. There are certain levels of course, some go from a simple ipad mount, to multiple ipad mounts added to full glass panels etc. To each his own of course, but it does look like paper maps are somewhat dying.

I have to admit, I carry an ipad as well for personal use on navigation flights instead of a paper map. Partially because I can use it for free though, due to piggy backing on a work subscription. I'd stick to a paper map if I had to fully pay for it myself.
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by MrWings » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:59 am

linecrew wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:40 am
But your brain is the backup if the calculator fails. What's your backup if you are in in unfamiliar territory and your EFB fails, and you have no maps? Just playing devil's advocate.
Forflight on iPad. Foreflight on iPhone.
2 GPSs in the plane.
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AirFrame
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by AirFrame » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:32 pm

linecrew wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:40 am
MrWings wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:53 am
I'm sure that when the calculator first came out, some people refused to buy one and proclaimed the ease of the battery independent slide rule.
But your brain is the backup if the calculator fails. What's your backup if you are in in unfamiliar territory and your EFB fails, and you have no maps? Just playing devil's advocate.
Also devil's advocate, but what's your brain's backup when you get two six-digit numbers to multiply? It ain't happening between the ears for most people.
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by AirFrame » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:35 pm

Heliian wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:53 am
You would be amazed at the amount of pilots that don't know how to use basic radio nav aids too.
With five GPS's in the cockpit when I fly (Panel, Phone, Tablet, Watch, Stratux), radio nav aids have gone the way of the buggy whip. I don't even have a Nav radio in the cockpit, but I can simulate it on my GPS.
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linecrew
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Re: Death of Paper Maps?

Post by linecrew » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:09 pm

MrWings wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:59 am
linecrew wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:40 am
But your brain is the backup if the calculator fails. What's your backup if you are in in unfamiliar territory and your EFB fails, and you have no maps? Just playing devil's advocate.
Forflight on iPad. Foreflight on iPhone.
2 GPSs in the plane.
Welp, you've got more disposable cash than I do.
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