language proficiency

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Max6462
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language proficiency

Post by Max6462 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:52 pm

Dear all,

My license shows under language proficiency : English and French

Now, under ICAO ELP ( English language Proficiency ) there are levels. level 4, 5 ,6 ...

Where do I stand ?

( foreign airline application requires me to fill this up...:-(

Thanks in advance !
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Max6462
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Max6462 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:06 pm

AC 401-009 does not really give an answer...
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Chaxterium
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Chaxterium » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:04 pm

I have been under the impression since the language proficiency thing came in that if there is no level listed on your licence, then it is assumed that you're at level 6.
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trey kule
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Re: language proficiency

Post by trey kule » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:24 pm

The Canadian language thing caused me problems overseas. From the countries with common sense that classified me as a “ native English Speaker” , to countries that required me to take an English language test every five years because my Canadian license did not show the ICAO level. Btw...my English was multiples of levels better than the experts who did the oral part of the testing.
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Grey_Wolf
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Grey_Wolf » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Look at CAR 421.06 (4) as to what each level is defined as. Note that the Language proficiency in English or English and French will be annotated on the licence, however, the level of proficiency will not be indicated.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_06

As for the circular. Appendix E also notes the levels. The only way I see to 'prove' to foreign airlines that the language requirements are met, is to to request an Aviation Language Proficiency Demonstration and have Transport provide a Feedback Letter that is signed and dated, attesting to your skills. Look at Appendices H & I
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviati ... appendix_e
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Max6462
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Max6462 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:44 am

Thanks guys !
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OldInstructor
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Re: language proficiency

Post by OldInstructor » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Canada only has three levels, expert, operational, not qualified. Operational equates to level 4 ICAO, if your license shows just English and French you are expert ( level 6) in both.
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Eric Janson
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Eric Janson » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:31 am

I have ELP level 6 on my EASA Licence. Means I never have to take another ELP Exam.
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complexintentions
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Re: language proficiency

Post by complexintentions » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:37 am

Sure, as long as you stay under your EASA license. But I think the point was that different regulators don't necessarily recognize your previous ELP, or even use standardized terminology.

EASA themselves don't recognize others, my EASA ELP was assessed as part of my radio license test. In spite of the fact I held clearly-denoted ICAO Level 6 on three other ATPL's (if one includes Canada). The constant replication of the same credentials does grow a bit tiresome, not to mention wasteful, expensive, and inefficient.

But then, EASA not playing nice with ICAO is another story (mostly involving greed and bureaucracy lol).
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Max6462
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Max6462 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:56 pm

OldInstructor wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:11 pm
Canada only has three levels, expert, operational, not qualified. Operational equates to level 4 ICAO, if your license shows just English and French you are expert ( level 6) in both.
That's great news ! Thanks for that Oldinstructor.
Any chance you could point me to a reference mentioning this ? That would really help with jobs prospects abroad in some cases.
Thanks !
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Flyright28
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Flyright28 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:17 pm

the letter of authentification from transport canada will show the level of your language proficiency as you can see on the attachment
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Max6462
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Max6462 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:12 pm

Thanks flyright28 !
Just checked on an authentification of license received.
It does mention my level 6 both in English and French.
Who would have thought ? 🤣
Cheers for all the replies and help.
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Turbolag
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Turbolag » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:03 pm

To get English proficiency you must be tested. I am a native speaker and had to be tested to receive a letter stating that I can speak “aviation English”.

Seriously, I had to be tested at a flight school that was certified for that training by an individual that spoke English less than I did. There is a multiple choice followed by two aural responses required regarding an aviation incident. The more you talk; in future tenses etc, the better your marks.

A few weeks letter you get a letter giving you a level. At level 6 you do not need to be retested.
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Chaxterium
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Chaxterium » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:11 pm

Turbolag wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:03 pm
To get English proficiency you must be tested. I am a native speaker and had to be tested to receive a letter stating that I can speak “aviation English”.

Seriously, I had to be tested at a flight school that was certified for that training by an individual that spoke English less than I did. There is a multiple choice followed by two aural responses required regarding an aviation incident. The more you talk; in future tenses etc, the better your marks.

A few weeks letter you get a letter giving you a level. At level 6 you do not need to be retested.
I've been flying for 12 years and I've never been tested. Was it possibly grandfathered in?
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Re: language proficiency

Post by Aviatard » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:57 pm

Chaxterium wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:11 pm
I've been flying for 12 years and I've never been tested. Was it possibly grandfathered in?
Yes. Language testing in Canada started in 2008. Anyone who had a license then was given a level 6 Expert assessment.
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Re: language proficiency

Post by confusedalot » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:15 pm

What I can't figure out is how the rocket scientists at tc actually determine how you are language qualified.
Live in Quebec, been to both language schools, so I get proficient in 2 languages stamped on the licence.
How do they know that? For all they know, I could be a unilingual English speaker.
Dumb system.
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OldInstructor
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Re: language proficiency

Post by OldInstructor » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:36 pm

Aviatard is close but not totally correct. TC conducted file reviews to determine competency. Communications such as letters and flight tests were reviewed. Most were assessed on that basis with some files with minimal information being dealt with by a phone conversations with an inspector or licensing officer.
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