New duty regs are out

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flyinhigh
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New duty regs are out

Post by flyinhigh » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:29 am

Took waaay to long but here you go.

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2018/2018 ... 9-eng.html
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Chaxterium
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Chaxterium » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am

Ooooh. This should be fun!
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:54 am

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Lightchop
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Lightchop » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 am

Sounds like 705 have two years to implement, and 703/704 up to 4 years.

I just browsed the whole thing, it still doesn't go far enough. Unfortunately.

There are still columns where your duty can be as high as 13 hours.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:08 am

JTFC that's a lot to take in. So far it doesn't look to change anything at my shop except more work for me. Yippee.
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Heliian
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Heliian » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:38 am

Chaxterium wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am
Ooooh. This should be fun!

Meh, it puts us in line with other regulatory bodies but it also has the giant hole of the FRMS so that you can still abuse your employees. If they really cared about fatigue then they would have just left the new regs intact without FRMS.

Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.

It's a good start to finally get more regs in there but it's a complete facade of safety at the moment AND will take 2 years to come into force.
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nwopilot
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by nwopilot » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:48 am

I really hope I am incorrectly interpreting these new regs!! Apparently Medevac operators are basically exempt from all the new regs and can continue to go for 14hrs!?!?!?!?! HAHAHAH that is just silly. Out of all of the jobs I have had, I was the most fatigued while operating on a 24hr on-call medevac schedule. Why are they exempt?!?! Just hire some more damn pilots!!!
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Last edited by nwopilot on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

seven-oh-nooo
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am

Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:38 am
Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.
Report them when you see it happen. If they auger in after you knew they were breaking the law you get to think about that for the rest of your life.
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lownslow
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by lownslow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:11 am

Image
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Speedalive
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Speedalive » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 am

Well that hurt my head to read..

How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
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altiplano
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by altiplano » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:29 am

seven-oh-nooo wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am
Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:38 am
Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.
Report them when you see it happen. If they auger in after you knew they were breaking the law you get to think about that for the rest of your life.
Obviously report intoxicated pilots. I don't think that's the point he is trying to make.
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Capt. Underpants » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:38 am

Some of you pissed and moaned because the new regulations didn't come fast enough for your liking. Now they're published; they largely address the concerns around a science-based approach; they didn't just copy the ridiculously restrictive US regs; and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.

Pilots. You could be swimming in gold, you'd still complain about the colour. :roll: Sometimes I'm embarrassed to call myself one.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:59 am

altiplano wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:29 am
Obviously report intoxicated pilots. I don't think that's the point he is trying to make.
At my place this has gone unreported more than once. Much more. Scary how much more. Like, I turf a guy for showing up smelling like a brewery then his roommate tells me he's been getting shitfaced nightly for the last six months then tells me off for not knowing sooner. I'm not psychic, so report this stuff. This applies to all companies everywhere and keeps all pilots from being seen as a group of drunks when some jet driver makes the front page for staggering through the terminal. Your peers' behaviour reflects on you.

But, this thread is about duty regs so I won't derail it any further.
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bobcaygeon
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by bobcaygeon » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:34 am

Speedalive wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 am
Well that hurt my head to read..

How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
FRMS should be able to deal with some of this ie limit the days in a row you can do them. Extended rest prior to or after, etc.
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Heliian
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Heliian » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:49 am

Capt. Underpants wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:38 am
and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.
FRMS is going to be the out for most operators. They are allowing operators to go beyond the posted regs if their FRMS is sufficient. Watch for new "crew rest" facilities coming to a base near you. Operators are going to do whatever they can to avoid hiring another shift of pilots to cover the gaps. Meanwhile, the people that maintain your aircraft are working 15 hr shifts all summer with not one word about fatigue or duty days or anything.
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FL007
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by FL007 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:16 pm

Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:49 am
Capt. Underpants wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:38 am
and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.
Meanwhile, the people that maintain your aircraft are working 15 hr shifts all summer with not one word about fatigue or duty days or anything.
Ok.. If there is a safety issue concerning maintenance, it should be brought up. Fatigue in pilots has determined to have killed thousands of people on the planet so far, and recently almost killed half a thousand in one incident.

How many reported accidents determined root cause to be maintenance personnel fatigued?

Maintenance should lobby the government, unionize, don't get bitter that pilots can't work like dogs after they spent 100k to work for 25k/year.

Its all in the link.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:24 pm

Maintenance needs their fatigue rules as well. No argument from me. I can't fight everybody's battles though. I'm celebrating that pilots now have something that pulls us out of the 3rd world!
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FL007
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by FL007 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:19 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:24 pm
Maintenance needs their fatigue rules as well. No argument from me. I can't fight everybody's battles though. I'm celebrating that pilots now have something that pulls us out of the 3rd world!
Exactly my point
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hithere
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by hithere » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:50 pm

Can anyone figure out if there is any effect on commuters in these new refs?
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by hithere » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:50 pm

Regs
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:06 pm

Someone who has way too much time on their hands should develop a flow chart for those regs.

So so painful to read.

S.
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lownslow
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by lownslow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:10 pm

hithere wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:50 pm
Can anyone figure out if there is any effect on commuters in these new refs?
Not directly but given the concepts of time zone acclimatization I suspect that many companies will at the very least insist that you live near your base.
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:06 pm
Someone who has way too much time on their hands should develop a flow chart for those regs.
Skip to the end for a summary of changes.
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Arnie Pye
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Arnie Pye » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:42 pm

lownslow wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:10 pm
Not directly but given the concepts of time zone acclimatization I suspect that many companies will at the very least insist that you live near your base.
A company can insist that I drive a red Prius. Unless they are providing me with one, it's still up to me what colour my car is. It's on you to show up to work, on-time, acclimatized for my schedule, sober and not fatigued.

nwopilot wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:48 am
I really hope I am incorrectly interpreting these new regs!! Apparently Medevac operators are basically exempt from all the new regs and can continue to go for 14hrs!?!?!?!?! HAHAHAH that is just silly. Out of all of the jobs I have had, I was the most fatigued while operating on a 24hr on-call medevac schedule. Why are they exempt?!?! Just hire some more damn pilots!!!
.

I second this. The most chronically fatigued I have ever been was while doing 24 hour on call medevac flying for the grand ol' sum of $25,000/year.

Speedalive wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 am
How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
I'm guessing what ever costs the least. More crew is usually the most expensive option so I'd read into that anything to hire the least amount of pilots possible and work them to the full extent of the regulations.
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Liftdump
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Liftdump » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:07 pm

I was over my duty day just reading that shit
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digits_
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Re: New duty regs are out

Post by digits_ » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 pm

I didn't think it was ever going to happen. I'm happy I was wrong!

Now let's wait to see in what twisted way operators will interpret the new rules...
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