New duty regs are out

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

flyinhigh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: my couch

New duty regs are out

Post by flyinhigh »

Took waaay to long but here you go.

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2018/2018 ... 9-eng.html
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Chaxterium
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:28 pm
Location: Probably in Africa

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Chaxterium »

Ooooh. This should be fun!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2174
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

---------- ADS -----------
  

Lightchop
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 10:03 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Lightchop »

Sounds like 705 have two years to implement, and 703/704 up to 4 years.

I just browsed the whole thing, it still doesn't go far enough. Unfortunately.

There are still columns where your duty can be as high as 13 hours.
---------- ADS -----------
  

seven-oh-nooo
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:35 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

JTFC that's a lot to take in. So far it doesn't look to change anything at my shop except more work for me. Yippee.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1760
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Heliian »

Chaxterium wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am
Ooooh. This should be fun!

Meh, it puts us in line with other regulatory bodies but it also has the giant hole of the FRMS so that you can still abuse your employees. If they really cared about fatigue then they would have just left the new regs intact without FRMS.

Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.

It's a good start to finally get more regs in there but it's a complete facade of safety at the moment AND will take 2 years to come into force.
---------- ADS -----------
  

nwopilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by nwopilot »

I really hope I am incorrectly interpreting these new regs!! Apparently Medevac operators are basically exempt from all the new regs and can continue to go for 14hrs!?!?!?!?! HAHAHAH that is just silly. Out of all of the jobs I have had, I was the most fatigued while operating on a 24hr on-call medevac schedule. Why are they exempt?!?! Just hire some more damn pilots!!!
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by nwopilot on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

seven-oh-nooo
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:35 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:38 am
Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.
Report them when you see it happen. If they auger in after you knew they were breaking the law you get to think about that for the rest of your life.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by lownslow »

Image
---------- ADS -----------
  

Speedalive
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:37 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Speedalive »

Well that hurt my head to read..

How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4117
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by altiplano »

seven-oh-nooo wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am
Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:38 am
Also, the part about 12hrs bottle to throttle is ridiculous as I doubt that any of these drunkard pilots were adhering to the 8hr rule to begin with.
Report them when you see it happen. If they auger in after you knew they were breaking the law you get to think about that for the rest of your life.
Obviously report intoxicated pilots. I don't think that's the point he is trying to make.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Capt. Underpants
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:04 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Capt. Underpants »

Some of you pissed and moaned because the new regulations didn't come fast enough for your liking. Now they're published; they largely address the concerns around a science-based approach; they didn't just copy the ridiculously restrictive US regs; and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.

Pilots. You could be swimming in gold, you'd still complain about the colour. :roll: Sometimes I'm embarrassed to call myself one.
---------- ADS -----------
  

seven-oh-nooo
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:35 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

altiplano wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:29 am
Obviously report intoxicated pilots. I don't think that's the point he is trying to make.
At my place this has gone unreported more than once. Much more. Scary how much more. Like, I turf a guy for showing up smelling like a brewery then his roommate tells me he's been getting shitfaced nightly for the last six months then tells me off for not knowing sooner. I'm not psychic, so report this stuff. This applies to all companies everywhere and keeps all pilots from being seen as a group of drunks when some jet driver makes the front page for staggering through the terminal. Your peers' behaviour reflects on you.

But, this thread is about duty regs so I won't derail it any further.
---------- ADS -----------
  

bobcaygeon
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:03 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by bobcaygeon »

Speedalive wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 am
Well that hurt my head to read..

How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
FRMS should be able to deal with some of this ie limit the days in a row you can do them. Extended rest prior to or after, etc.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1760
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Heliian »

Capt. Underpants wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:38 am
and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.
FRMS is going to be the out for most operators. They are allowing operators to go beyond the posted regs if their FRMS is sufficient. Watch for new "crew rest" facilities coming to a base near you. Operators are going to do whatever they can to avoid hiring another shift of pilots to cover the gaps. Meanwhile, the people that maintain your aircraft are working 15 hr shifts all summer with not one word about fatigue or duty days or anything.
---------- ADS -----------
  

FL007
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:35 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by FL007 »

Heliian wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:49 am
Capt. Underpants wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:38 am
and they added a requirement of FRMS for operators who do long haul operations; and still, you people piss and moan.
Meanwhile, the people that maintain your aircraft are working 15 hr shifts all summer with not one word about fatigue or duty days or anything.
Ok.. If there is a safety issue concerning maintenance, it should be brought up. Fatigue in pilots has determined to have killed thousands of people on the planet so far, and recently almost killed half a thousand in one incident.

How many reported accidents determined root cause to be maintenance personnel fatigued?

Maintenance should lobby the government, unionize, don't get bitter that pilots can't work like dogs after they spent 100k to work for 25k/year.

Its all in the link.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1832
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by goingnowherefast »

Maintenance needs their fatigue rules as well. No argument from me. I can't fight everybody's battles though. I'm celebrating that pilots now have something that pulls us out of the 3rd world!
---------- ADS -----------
  

FL007
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:35 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by FL007 »

goingnowherefast wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:24 pm
Maintenance needs their fatigue rules as well. No argument from me. I can't fight everybody's battles though. I'm celebrating that pilots now have something that pulls us out of the 3rd world!
Exactly my point
---------- ADS -----------
  

hithere
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by hithere »

Can anyone figure out if there is any effect on commuters in these new refs?
---------- ADS -----------
  

hithere
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by hithere »

Regs
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 893
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Someone who has way too much time on their hands should develop a flow chart for those regs.

So so painful to read.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by lownslow »

hithere wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:50 pm
Can anyone figure out if there is any effect on commuters in these new refs?
Not directly but given the concepts of time zone acclimatization I suspect that many companies will at the very least insist that you live near your base.
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:06 pm
Someone who has way too much time on their hands should develop a flow chart for those regs.
Skip to the end for a summary of changes.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Arnie Pye
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:54 pm

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Arnie Pye »

lownslow wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:10 pm
Not directly but given the concepts of time zone acclimatization I suspect that many companies will at the very least insist that you live near your base.
A company can insist that I drive a red Prius. Unless they are providing me with one, it's still up to me what colour my car is. It's on you to show up to work, on-time, acclimatized for my schedule, sober and not fatigued.

nwopilot wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:48 am
I really hope I am incorrectly interpreting these new regs!! Apparently Medevac operators are basically exempt from all the new regs and can continue to go for 14hrs!?!?!?!?! HAHAHAH that is just silly. Out of all of the jobs I have had, I was the most fatigued while operating on a 24hr on-call medevac schedule. Why are they exempt?!?! Just hire some more damn pilots!!!
.

I second this. The most chronically fatigued I have ever been was while doing 24 hour on call medevac flying for the grand ol' sum of $25,000/year.

Speedalive wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 am
How is this going to affect the airlines with those highly productive turns to the Caribbean/Central America with early morning report times (swg, tsc, rou, etc)? Will they just depart later in the day to take advantage of the extra duty, or will they have to hire more pilots to compensate for the sudden increase of sun destinations layovers?
I'm guessing what ever costs the least. More crew is usually the most expensive option so I'd read into that anything to hire the least amount of pilots possible and work them to the full extent of the regulations.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Liftdump
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Earth

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by Liftdump »

I was over my duty day just reading that shit
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2874
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: New duty regs are out

Post by digits_ »

I didn't think it was ever going to happen. I'm happy I was wrong!

Now let's wait to see in what twisted way operators will interpret the new rules...
---------- ADS -----------
  
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”