Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

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The5chord
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Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by The5chord » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:59 pm

AC A320 FO
Year
1 - 56
2 - 61
12 - 140

AA 320 FO
1- 88
2 -133
12 - 184

Brutal and I didn’t even do the conversion.
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FOD_Vacuum
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 pm

I still don’t understand how the airlines in the States pay substantially more for the same job, offer way cheaper fares, and still stay in business, grow and modernize fleets...what is AC hiding from us? Are they saving massive amounts of money for a rainy day fund or what? Does this have something to do with the privatization or public use of airports and costs associated in said countries?

Living costs in the states are also way less than Canada. Quite the time to be a pilot in the states. It’s like the Canadian pilots are watching the US pilots with eyes of jealousy.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:51 am

Supply and demand. AC doesn’t have to raise their pay. They still get lots of resumes. Remember, we don’t need 1500hrs to fly an airliner in canada!
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by FishermanIvan » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:36 am

Also, AA's fleet is five times the size of ACs, and they have three times the staff, serving a country nearly as big with 10 times the population, with over double the revenue. Probably has something to do with it.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by munzil » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:19 am

FishermanIvan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:36 am
Also, AA's fleet is five times the size of ACs, and they have three times the staff, serving a country nearly as big with 10 times the population, with over double the revenue. Probably has something to do with it.
Compare it then to NZ or Australia. Smaller populations, just as expensive to live, but far cheaper fares and pay is double to start.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by av8ts » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 am

FOD_Vacuum wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 pm
I still don’t understand how the airlines in the States pay substantially more for the same job, offer way cheaper fares, and still stay in business, grow and modernize fleets...what is AC hiding from us? Are they saving massive amounts of money for a rainy day fund or what? Does this have something to do with the privatization or public use of airports and costs associated in said countries?

Living costs in the states are also way less than Canada. Quite the time to be a pilot in the states. It’s like the Canadian pilots are watching the US pilots with eyes of jealousy.
I can guarantee you this pilot is not jealous.They could triple that U.S. pay and I would still feel sorry for those living in Trumps America
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by altiplano » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am

In the not distant past AC pilots were leading the North American carriers in pay. But the land of equality (Canada) has held us back... Other airlines still making less have held us back...

It's high time all the Canadian Airline Pilots start to strive for pay levels akin to our neighbours to the south... I'd be happy if we can achieve the same dollar amount ignoring foreign currency gain/loss... Pattern bargaining and gains has been immensely successful for them, that's how we have to push it here. WS makes a gain, AC tops it, TS makes a gain, SW tops it, WS tops that, and so on. Dig in heels and let's get going (UP!).
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daedalusx
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by daedalusx » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:03 am

If you really want to be depressed compare the 777 FO scale that some AC new hire will be forced on. It'll be especially bad because they'll be forced on reserve with shit schedule and very little OT until they can bid an upgrade...

American Airlines B777 FO
1- 88 USD = 120 CAD
2 -164 USD = 222 CAD
3 - 192 USD = 260 CAD
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by 5x5 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:34 am

av8ts wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 am
I can guarantee you this pilot is not jealous.They could triple that U.S. pay and I would still feel sorry for those living in Trumps America
Does that mean you're enamoured to be living in Trudeau's Canada, or just that you feel the U.S. sucks even more than Canada does right now?
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Mr. North » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:07 pm

The only grain of salt to keep in mind when drooling over those numbers is health insurance. It can be quite expensive. That being said I'd jump at the chance to live and work in the US. Better pay, lower taxes, affordable real estate, lower cost of living. Near zero fees for personal travel. Austin, Denver, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, Palm Springs... I could easily live and work in any of these beautiful cities, and coming home to visit family and friends would be easier and cheaper than it is now... The US will need thousands of pilots over the next few years, even if they took every ATPL holder in Canada that wouldn't satisfy the anticipated demand. God help Canadian Aviation if they open their doors.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Cessna 180 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:52 pm

Mr. North wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:07 pm
The only grain of salt to keep in mind when drooling over those numbers is health insurance. It can be quite expensive. That being said I'd jump at the chance to live and work in the US. Better pay, lower taxes, affordable real estate, lower cost of living. Near zero fees for personal travel. Austin, Denver, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, Palm Springs... I could easily live and work in any of these beautiful cities, and coming home to visit family and friends would be easier and cheaper than it is now... The US will need thousands of pilots over the next few years, even if they took every ATPL holder in Canada that wouldn't satisfy the anticipated demand. God help Canadian Aviation if they open their doors.
All the big unionized airlines in the US provide health insurance. I imagine those figures don't include benefits, just like the salaries here don't include dental insurance, drug plans, etc.
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flybyyou
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by flybyyou » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:21 pm

do you guys think US Aviation will open the door to Canadian Pilots ? the pay here is a joke.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by groundpilot » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:26 pm

flybyyou wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:21 pm
do you guys think US Aviation will open the door to Canadian Pilots ? the pay here is a joke.
No - I don't

What I think is far more likely is they would hire Canadian airlines to take on Capacity Purchase Agreements (CPA) to move around passengers south of the border.

You would have cheap labour while airlines down south would reap the benefits of our pathetic state
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by C.W.E. » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:55 pm

I can guarantee you this pilot is not jealous.They could triple that U.S. pay and I would still feel sorry for those living in Trumps America
What exactly is Trumps America?
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Gannet167 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:49 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:55 pm
What exactly is Trumps America?
Image
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Inverted2 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:11 pm

av8ts wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 am
FOD_Vacuum wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 pm
I still don’t understand how the airlines in the States pay substantially more for the same job, offer way cheaper fares, and still stay in business, grow and modernize fleets...what is AC hiding from us? Are they saving massive amounts of money for a rainy day fund or what? Does this have something to do with the privatization or public use of airports and costs associated in said countries?

Living costs in the states are also way less than Canada. Quite the time to be a pilot in the states. It’s like the Canadian pilots are watching the US pilots with eyes of jealousy.
I can guarantee you this pilot is not jealous.They could triple that U.S. pay and I would still feel sorry for those living in Trumps America
In case you’ve been living under a rock for the last 2 years we have someone 10x as stupid running the show here.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Tail-Chaser » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:11 pm
av8ts wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 am
FOD_Vacuum wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 pm
I still don’t understand how the airlines in the States pay substantially more for the same job, offer way cheaper fares, and still stay in business, grow and modernize fleets...what is AC hiding from us? Are they saving massive amounts of money for a rainy day fund or what? Does this have something to do with the privatization or public use of airports and costs associated in said countries?

Living costs in the states are also way less than Canada. Quite the time to be a pilot in the states. It’s like the Canadian pilots are watching the US pilots with eyes of jealousy.
I can guarantee you this pilot is not jealous.They could triple that U.S. pay and I would still feel sorry for those living in Trumps America
In case you’ve been living under a rock for the last 2 years we have someone 10x as stupid running the show here.
Christ. I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by pianokeys » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:08 am

Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm


Christ. I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
Two words for you: "people kind". Trudeau the Second is a pussy.

AAs 320s are also fresh out of the box, ACs are ready to be turned in to pop cans.

AA can suck it anyways, Onex too.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Tail-Chaser » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:23 am

pianokeys wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:08 am
Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm


Christ. I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
Two words for you: "people kind". Trudeau the Second is a pussy.

AAs 320s are also fresh out of the box, ACs are ready to be turned in to pop cans.

AA can suck it anyways, Onex too.
Wow. Such a strong critique. You've really changed my mind.
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The5chord
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by The5chord » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:52 am

The health insurance accounts for nothing. AA pilots probably have a pretty nice package and if you are in a certain tier of society in the USA the health services are probably better user experience than in Canada.

Now if you lose your medical and your income there...
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by altiplano » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:40 pm

Any health insurance cost is easily offset by:
- significantly higher wages
- significantly lower taxes
- significantly lower cost of living
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by ahramin » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:55 pm

My friend's daughter is a VP at Delta Airlines so I'm guessing her benefits are better than the pilots. She pays an extra $800 a month insurance because the company benefits aren't good enough for her and her family. Obviously she gets much better healthcare than she would get free in Canada but it is a significant cost. As others have mentioned, easily offset by the higher wages.

If you're in the top global 1% of income earners, financially the US is the place to be.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:57 pm

Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm

I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
I'll never understand the continued Canadian fanboy drooling over this guy, like he's Justin Bieber. What are you, a 12 year old girl? Seems a lot of people's analysis stops at the cute hair. Maybe he'll light up a joint on New Year's Eve on live TV to raise his popularity even higher.

Here's his response to China holding 2 of our citizens:

"OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadians and people around the world are “extremely disturbed” by China’s detention of Canadians.

Trudeau told reporters in Mali that Canada is impressing upon the Chinese how important it is to release detainees Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor."

Wow. This dude is tough. Fights for Canada. I'd be scared if I was the Chinese.

This is MY country he is supposed to represent. Not the world. There is no place for a pansied ass leader representing us.
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by Tail-Chaser » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:08 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:57 pm
Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm

I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
I'll never understand the continued Canadian fanboy drooling over this guy, like he's Justin Bieber. What are you, a 12 year old girl? Seems a lot of people's analysis stops at the cute hair. Maybe he'll light up a joint on New Year's Eve on live TV to raise his popularity even higher.

Here's his response to China holding 2 of our citizens:

"OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadians and people around the world are “extremely disturbed” by China’s detention of Canadians.

Trudeau told reporters in Mali that Canada is impressing upon the Chinese how important it is to release detainees Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor."

Wow. This dude is tough. Fights for Canada. I'd be scared if I was the Chinese.

This is MY country he is supposed to represent. Not the world. There is no place for a pansied ass leader representing us.
And your response would be? Or perhaps what would you like Mr. Scheer to say?
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Re: Air Canada vs American Airlines A320

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:20 pm

Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:08 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:57 pm
Tail-Chaser wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:13 pm

I'll never understand the absolute hatred of Trudeau. It's fair to say you dislike his policies or politics but come on, you think he's worse than Trump?
I'll never understand the continued Canadian fanboy drooling over this guy, like he's Justin Bieber. What are you, a 12 year old girl? Seems a lot of people's analysis stops at the cute hair. Maybe he'll light up a joint on New Year's Eve on live TV to raise his popularity even higher.

Here's his response to China holding 2 of our citizens:

"OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadians and people around the world are “extremely disturbed” by China’s detention of Canadians.

Trudeau told reporters in Mali that Canada is impressing upon the Chinese how important it is to release detainees Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor."

Wow. This dude is tough. Fights for Canada. I'd be scared if I was the Chinese.

This is MY country he is supposed to represent. Not the world. There is no place for a pansied ass leader representing us.
And your response would be? Or perhaps what would you like Mr. Scheer to say?
Not a fan of Scheer either to be honest.

Is it too much to ask for a leader that unequivocally stands up for Canada?
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