Saunders Aircraft of Gimli Manitoba ST-28

[kenair]

Hi, can you ask your IPMS chapter members if they any information, leads or material on the Saunders Aircraft ST-27 of Gimli.

I'm writing a series of blog articles(13 so far) on Saunders Aircraft Canada at https://saundersaircraft.blogspot.com/2 ... andre.html
culminating in the 50th anniversary of the Saunders Aircraft move to Gimli in late 1970.

Would you have any Saunders Aircraft material, photos, stories, documents or follow up leads you that you would share with me from plant workers, pilots, ame's, operators, flight attendants, airport staff, DOT staff, etc.

I have the Saunders Aircraft article from the CAHS Journal Winter 1977 written Joop Gerritsma and have met Robert Arnold who has the photo negatives taken by the Saunders Aircraft company photographer at the Gimli plant, though Robert A. is keeping the Saunders Aircraft photos for his future proposed book.

I've made contact with Bill Zuk of IPMS, L. Helms, D. Galbraith. W Grassick, they are formerly of Saunders Aircraft and with R. Fread of Dryden who worked at OCA at Gimli 72-76.

We've also set up a FB group page to share and encourage folks to post their Saunders stuff https://www.facebook.com/groups/2763480 ... =bookmarks

you can post here or email me at kenkalynuk@gmail.com

Sincerely, ken kalynuk, Winnipeg, MB.

[kenair]

recognize anyone - names?

[aeroncasuperchief]

Remember working on them at city express. British tools needed, Air system for everything and a compressor that was louder than the engines ! One of the AME s was working a double shift and forgot to install the brakes, A/C taxied into the pumps,,,,,, Was a cramped cockpit for the pilots but never heard anything bad about the plane.

[NorthernFlyer18]

There is a fuselage up on blocks at the airport in Gimli

[BMLtech]

Basically a stretched and modified Dehavilland Heron? Think there's some retired furnace bashers in the Gimli area that worked on them, worked with a few of them. Good guys.

[kenair]

There is a fuselage up on blocks at the airport in Gimli

the ST-28 that the WCAM museum has been chopped up , the static test airframe is near the go-kart track.

[kenair]

Remember working on them at city express. British tools needed, Air system for everything and a compressor that was louder than the engines ! One of the AME s was working a double shift and forgot to install the brakes, A/C taxied into the pumps,,,,,, Was a cramped cockpit for the pilots but never heard anything bad about the plane.

appreciate the reply, every tidbit helps as I was not there, i finished college in 1976 (civil eng) as Saunders was winding down. As I collected these tidbit I can weave them into a story. if you recall more, post here or email me at kenkalynuk@gmail.com

[kenair]

Remember working on them at city express. British tools needed, Air system for everything and a compressor that was louder than the engines ! One of the AME s was working a double shift and forgot to install the brakes, A/C taxied into the pumps,,,,,, Was a cramped cockpit for the pilots but never heard anything bad about the plane.

Thank-you for the info,
Was the compressor geared off the back of the PT6?



Then there was this fine in the Gimli hangar, I wonder which airframe no. it was.

[aeroncasuperchief]

Tough a/c ! The compressor was in the nose with adjacent bottle(s) 1 important thing to remember is the alcohol ? in the system to prevent freezing of any moisture, thereby rendering gear flaps etc U/S . For the 1 year I worked on the A/C, I could never find engine 3 and 4 !!!

[valleyboy]

There are still a few of us still around that flew the aircraft. Yes a little cramped and not having breaks on the rudder pedals was a little strange at first but over all not a bad aircraft. Pneumatics are a little foreign to North America and have their issues on very cold days. Yep the isopropanol was mandatory.

I think the ST28 (not being a conversion) would have been a great aircraft with the "partial" pressurization and with the low differential would allow to operate up to about 200 would have really launched the aircraft.

The only bad thing on the ST27 was the reverse. They used a -34 derated to -27 and the FCU and PCU came from a Pilatus Porter (I think) which was set up for reverse in the air. The end result was the aircraft made a lot of noise in reverse but did very little. It actually felt like you were accelerating initially on pulling reverse. Maintenance tried to addresses this but never were able to make it work efficiently.

Part of the demise was getting the aircraft back from the Colombians They had a few down there on lease which I think defaulted plus the Colombians made mods on the aircraft that made them not airworthy when the got back to Canada. One of the mods were putting hinges on the engine mounts with pit pins so the engines could be swung out to allow easy access for component change. Needless to say TC had a stroke when they saw this. Sanders always struggled for cash. It's really too bad the ST28 never made it. Back in the day TOtter was the commuter aircraft and it was terrible for that. If the death tube and the Bch 99 were a little later the ST28 might have lived.

[kenair]

There are still a few of us still around that flew the aircraft. Yes a little cramped and not having breaks on the rudder pedals was a little strange at first but over all not a bad aircraft. Pneumatics are a little foreign to North America and have their issues on very cold days. Yep the isopropanol was mandatory.

I think the ST28 (not being a conversion) would have been a great aircraft with the "partial" pressurization and with the low differential would allow to operate up to about 200 would have really launched the aircraft.

The only bad thing on the ST27 was the reverse. They used a -34 derated to -27 and the FCU and PCU came from a Pilatus Porter (I think) which was set up for reverse in the air. The end result was the aircraft made a lot of noise in reverse but did very little. It actually felt like you were accelerating initially on pulling reverse. Maintenance tried to addresses this but never were able to make it work efficiently.

Part of the demise was getting the aircraft back from the Colombians They had a few down there on lease which I think defaulted plus the Colombians made mods on the aircraft that made them not airworthy when the got back to Canada. One of the mods were putting hinges on the engine mounts with pit pins so the engines could be swung out to allow easy access for component change. Needless to say TC had a stroke when they saw this. Sanders always struggled for cash. It's really too bad the ST28 never made it. Back in the day TOtter was the commuter aircraft and it was terrible for that. If the death tube and the Bch 99 were a little later the ST28 might have lived.

awesome post, just the kind of stuff I was hoping for, if anyone has any old pics, take a photo of them with your smart phone and email me I'm at kenkalynuk@gmail.com

[Pacqing]

I seem to remember the air compressor in a separate compartment on the R/H side aft of the wing.

[aeroncasuperchief]

At least one of the Saunders at City express had the compressor in the nose

[aeroncasuperchief]

I do recall HMQ at City

[linecrew]

I remember seeing C-FLOL as a kid when it was with Voyageur. Can anyone confirm if it's still at St. Andrews?

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/18712/C-FLOL

[kenair]

HI, yes, C-FLOL is in the WCAM storage yard on the outskirts of St. Andrews Airport Manitoba, I saw it there a couple of weeks ago on a drive by.
Speaking with Fritz Meier of ON AIR, the ST-27 had two air compressors, one ran off the left engine, and an electrically powered one in the nose.
Fritz said the only hydraulic system on the plane ran the windshield wipers, he thought the ST-27 was a good aircraft at the time for the routes ON AIR had, and was a better performer than a Twin Otter on the On Air routes.

He also said the 27 in the ST-27 name was from using the PT6-27 engines in the prototype ST-27 - agree??

You guys are teaching me on the ST-27 / ST-28 as I go, with Saunders Aircraft, my part is the write it up in a series of blogs.
cheers - ken

[kenair]

I'm not sure how this post by K.J. Bird ended in a Winnipeg Gliding Cub thread so I cut and pasted it here
old crow wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:25 am
Sir: I was employed with Saunders Aircraft through Weltrade International, a contracting firm from England, to work on the prototype of the ST27, in 1973. (possibly 1972, memory starting to go). The person I worked under was BRIAN BELLIS, from England. The plant superintendent to the best of my recollection was a Mr. KERSEY (sp). I worked with Weltrade for approximately 8 months at Gimli, During that time, if memory serves, there were several revisions that kept coming out for the ST27, The project was not going very well. There were a few of us that were very frustrated over the changes and modifications that kept coming up, a few of us left. From what I understand, shortly after I left they removed the fixtures from the wings and the wings sort of folded. Main spare through the fuselage gave out. Not sure how much truth is in that, could be just rumour. However, I have several photos of the plant, the shell of the plane sitting on fixtures and Jigs, employees working, If your interested I will try to dig them up and forward them to you.
I just happened to come across the website and blog and thought Id put in my 2 bits worth. Ken J. Bird
Hi, I'm not sure how this Saunders thread got in with the Gliding club open house, I would love to see your photos, please reach me at kenkalynuk@gmail.com

thank-you - ken kalynuk