Remeber that F35 debate

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FenderManDan
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Remeber that F35 debate

Post by FenderManDan »

Throwback to 80s and CF-18

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xJBvKJht78[/youtube]
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Mostly Harmless
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Yes but, a former part time drama teacher said the F35 wasn't any good... and who would know more about military equipment than a former part time drama teacher with an ego so large he can't accept he may be wrong?

I enjoyed the video. A great example that the more things change, the more things stay the same.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by pianokeys »

History has a strange way of repeating itself.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Meatservo »

It's amazing that was almost 40 years ago. Other than the rather grainy colour TV and use of terms like "Warsaw Pact", there's nothing particularly anachronistic about that broadcast. Compare that to the differences you'd see in a broadcast 40 years before THAT.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:27 pm Yes but, a former part time drama teacher said the F35 wasn't any good... and who would know more about military equipment than a former part time drama teacher with an ego so large he can't accept he may be wrong?

I enjoyed the video. A great example that the more things change, the more things stay the same.
And yet even the Americans can't make heads or tails of it.

https://taskandpurpose.com/pentagon-f-3 ... sment-2018

S.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:28 am And yet even the Americans can't make heads or tails of it.

https://taskandpurpose.com/pentagon-f-3 ... sment-2018

S.
But our former part time drama teacher decided spending the budget on a bunch of used F-18's from Australia was a more effective purchase for our military than holding the open and transparent bid he promised to hold. Since he's so wonderful, I know you will defend him in not living up to his campaign promises while simultaneously sole sourcing a F-18 Super Hornet contract... exactly like the one he was complaining about with the F-35 contract.We got lucky and Boeing sunk that deal for us (the tax payer). I don't care which airplane we buy but this government has handled this whole situation horribly. Hold the competition and buy the winner... even if it is the plane you personally don't like.

As for my comments earlier... it is interesting to see that the F-18 got exactly the same press that the F-35 is getting now.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:50 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:28 am And yet even the Americans can't make heads or tails of it.

https://taskandpurpose.com/pentagon-f-3 ... sment-2018

S.
But our former part time drama teacher decided spending the budget on a bunch of used F-18's from Australia was a more effective purchase for our military than holding the open and transparent bid he promised to hold. Since he's so wonderful, I know you will defend him in not living up to his campaign promises while simultaneously sole sourcing a F-18 Super Hornet contract... exactly like the one he was complaining about with the F-35 contract.We got lucky and Boeing sunk that deal for us (the tax payer). I don't care which airplane we buy but this government has handled this whole situation horribly. Hold the competition and buy the winner... even if it is the plane you personally don't like.

As for my comments earlier... it is interesting to see that the F-18 got exactly the same press that the F-35 is getting now.
I don't know how to respond since you already put the words in my mouth.

No I don't defend Trudeau or the replacement F-18s from Australia. I am as anxious as most people for this process, the rightful selection process to get underway and for the Canadian Forces to get their replacement fighters.

I'm tired of Federal governments, not just Trudeau's, wasting money and politicizing the contracts.

I posted a week ago about Airbus pushing their Eurofighter by bringing jobs to Quebec and whether that was a better option, or would we be missing out on the 6th Gen stealth and connectivity.

So chill out and stop putting words in my mouth. It was merely a comment on how even the Pentagon doesn't know what to make of the F-35. If they truly have a half-life well under 4000 hrs, is it a great option to rush into it, when we need these thing until the mid 21st century, barring one or all of the superpowers doesn't go full dummy and push the big red button.

S.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:26 am
So chill out and stop putting words in my mouth.
Fair enough. I apologize for that. My frustration with our "government" and its performance sometimes gets the better of me.

ofr
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:26 am I'm tired of Federal governments, not just Trudeau's, wasting money and politicizing the contracts.
I totally agree with this. They are all guilty. Unfortunately, I can only deal with the one that's currently in power. I'll be as critical of the next one that makes promises they don't intend to keep.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by NorOntair »

In fairness...

The F14, F15, F16, Tornado were all better and still are in comparison to the 18.

So in 30-50 years time we will too, be looking at how we fucked up choosing the F35.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by WhiskeyWhiskey »

NorOntair wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:01 pm In fairness...

The F14, F15, F16, Tornado were all better and still are in comparison to the 18.

So in 30-50 years time we will too, be looking at how we fucked up choosing the F35.
Couldn’t agree more.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by AuxBatOn »

So, the F-14 and the F-15 were both, in the 79s and early 80s Air-to-Air fighters and the F-16 has a severly limited endurance, even when compared to the Hornet and was designed as a point defense platform, How were they better than a multi-role platform??

And the Tomcat is long retired...
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Old fella »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:32 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:26 am
So chill out and stop putting words in my mouth.
Fair enough. I apologize for that. My frustration with our "government" and its performance sometimes gets the better of me.

ofr
schnitzel2k3 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:26 am I'm tired of Federal governments, not just Trudeau's, wasting money and politicizing the contracts.
I totally agree with this. They are all guilty. Unfortunately, I can only deal with the one that's currently in power. I'll be as critical of the next one that makes promises they don't intend to keep.
In my close to 70 yrs of living, I am not aware of any Government in this fair country that fell aka booted from office due to any issues directly related to military procurement up to and including our drama teacher and Harper redux(Scheer) - should he get the keys this year. Military has never sunk PMs starting with the ole boozer himself Sir John A.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Longtimer »

I guess the real question is: "Does Canada really need supersonic fighter jets?"
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:11 pm So, the F-14 and the F-15 were both, in the 79s and early 80s Air-to-Air fighters and the F-16 has a severly limited endurance, even when compared to the Hornet and was designed as a point defense platform, How were they better than a multi-role platform??

And the Tomcat is long retired...
Is the F-15X an option?

S.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Longtimer wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:04 pm I guess the real question is: "Does Canada really need supersonic fighter jets?"
Sadly, it appears we do. https://www.rferl.org/a/us-canadian-jet ... 33515.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/02/1 ... _23666109/

It would seem they are restarting the cold war.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Old fella wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:39 pm In my close to 70 yrs of living, I am not aware of any Government in this fair country that fell aka booted from office due to any issues directly related to military procurement up to and including our drama teacher and Harper redux(Scheer) - should he get the keys this year. Military has never sunk PMs starting with the ole boozer himself Sir John A.
Harper has not been in government since 2015. I think it's time people let that go and deal with the present. Harper did a lot of things I was not happy about but he's not in power and has not been in power for many years. If that's the only argument one can supply for the pro-JT camp, it's not a very strong argument.

I concur, a military procurement is not going to bring down a government.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Mostly Harmless »

The fighter jet replacement issue is just one of a litany of issues with this government. Here's a short list of some but not all issues I have with the current government:

Minister lied about his job and resume, still a minister. (Defense minister)
Minister lied about where she was born to get elected, still a minister.
Changed laws around banking to make it legal for the government and banks to go into your bank account and take your money to pay for bad debt if needed, as was done in Greece. (Previously illegal under all governments of the past)
Changed tax laws around trust funds to have them taxed at the highest tax rates BUT grandfathered in all existing (Justin's) trust funds to be taxed at the lowest rate.
Multiple violations of ethics on accepting gifts and holidays from billionaire friends.
Attempts to have naval ship building contracts moved to Liberal supporting companies at the cost of mutli-million dollar cancellation fees.
Buying a pipeline so they could prevent it being built.
Hanging a giant "Closed for all business" sign on our nation, driving all foreign investment out of the country because you can't build anything here anymore.
Placing a money grabbing carbon tax on everyone rather than actually doing something (legislated reductions) about the environment... in other words social posturing and nothing of substance. https://vancouversun.com/business/energ ... o-increase

Support whatever works for you but, I am hoping that whoever wins the election this year, it is a minority government because that seems to be the only way these people are held accountable.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by Braun »

Mostly Harmless wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:25 am The fighter jet replacement issue is just one of a litany of issues with this government. Here's a short list of some but not all issues I have with the current government:

Minister lied about his job and resume, still a minister. (Defense minister)
Minister lied about where she was born to get elected, still a minister.
Changed laws around banking to make it legal for the government and banks to go into your bank account and take your money to pay for bad debt if needed, as was done in Greece. (Previously illegal under all governments of the past)
Changed tax laws around trust funds to have them taxed at the highest tax rates BUT grandfathered in all existing (Justin's) trust funds to be taxed at the lowest rate.
Multiple violations of ethics on accepting gifts and holidays from billionaire friends.
Attempts to have naval ship building contracts moved to Liberal supporting companies at the cost of mutli-million dollar cancellation fees.
Buying a pipeline so they could prevent it being built.
Hanging a giant "Closed for all business" sign on our nation, driving all foreign investment out of the country because you can't build anything here anymore.
Placing a money grabbing carbon tax on everyone rather than actually doing something (legislated reductions) about the environment... in other words social posturing and nothing of substance. https://vancouversun.com/business/energ ... o-increase

Support whatever works for you but, I am hoping that whoever wins the election this year, it is a minority government because that seems to be the only way these people are held accountable.
We truly are stuck between two turds. I can't fathom voting for Scheer or Trudeau...or NDP.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

BUY THE F-15X!! (hehe I keep seeing BUILD THE WALL!! comments, they make laugh)

112 International: Sweden says it built a Russian fighter jet killer — and stealth is totally irrelevant.

https://112.international/article/swede ... 36899.html

A pretty simple solution, instead of hiding from radar, just shut it down completely. Welcome back to the era of the dogfight.

S.
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Re: Remeber that F35 debate

Post by rigpiggy »

Do the ethical thing, and properly obey the laws, be shuffled to a junior position, and be forced to stepdown-----check
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