Canadian/First Air Merger

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pelmet
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by pelmet » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:09 pm

If the market dropped off after 9/11 then a smaller type is needed to fly the route profitably. It appears that an RJ or Dash-8 is the appropriate size aircraft for YZF-YVR. That is why other carriers have been flying this route for a long time while it was dropped by the carrier that initiated the route. If a carrier doesn't want to spend money to have the size of aircraft that will make money on the route then go ahead and drop it but whining about the lack of cabin crew service on a route when the alternative is no service or one-stop service doesn't make sense to me.

I say good on AC for bringing in consistent, long term service to YVR and YYC. But...now with 2/3(just a guess) of the people leaving YZF have been given great benefit by bypassing YEG are no longer going to YEG, it was time to downsize the type going to YEG. Maybe the northern jet carriers should have purchased some cheap CRJ's or Dash-8-400's. Too late now.

Plus, going on AC allows baggage to be chacked through to destination on connecting flights allowing tighter connections and saving even more time instead of hoping that the baggage handlers will get the bag to the baggage belt and you having to stand in line and check-in again. Another benefit of the new competition. I say that from a time-saving point of view, the new competition has been great for the majority of people flying south from YZF.

Perhaps more competition is needed in the east if the right aircraft type can be found for the longer routes. Different market issues for sure but in the end....

More competition is needed, not mergers.
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valleyboy
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by valleyboy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:58 pm

I can't see any value in connecting in Calgary rather than Edmonton. A connection is a connection. The Q400 has to go off the longer routes. Do what it was designed for but 2 hour legs it's not. The RJ isn't even worth mentioning all I can say is never take an emergency exit, you will freeze your ass.

Mergers are good and bad. The forced AC/Canadian merger just cost everyone money, jobs and the industry is just getting back on track. Thank you government intervention!!

Companies are greedy and none of them want competition and as far as being loyal to their customers, WS has demonstrated several times in the past that they will bail on a route as soon as it becomes marginal. You can only cut prices so far and even load factors won't keep you in the air. Look at WOW

Part of the issue is the north is spoiled. Not that long ago 1 sked a week, now they want 5 a day and jet service as well. The numbers don't lie, There is not enough for 2 705 jet operators in the north. I can see the only two choices, draw up the boundaries and each take a section or merge.

Ironically I don't see much discussion about the Bearskin, Perimeter merge with rumours of Wasaya being part of it as well in the future. This leaves us with the question of Calm Air as well since they are all owned (at least partially) by the same company.

Seems to me I once read that the only answer for the viability of International airlines in the future will be the merging of all existing airlines into 2 or 3 large world wide carriers. Time does march on and time will tell.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:44 pm

Mostly correct. The North wants the CASM, ticket prices of a 787 and the frequency seen in YVR, but only have the customer base for a Dash 8-100 twice weekly.

If you want cheap tickets, up gauge the plane and cut frequency. If you want frequency, increase prices and decrease aircraft size. Can't have both. Can't support 3 A380s a day in a town of 50 000.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:44 pm

double post
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pelmet
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by pelmet » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:16 pm

valleyboy wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:58 pm
I can't see any value in connecting in Calgary rather than Edmonton. A connection is a connection. The Q400 has to go off the longer routes. Do what it was designed for but 2 hour legs it's not. The RJ isn't even worth mentioning all I can say is never take an emergency exit, you will freeze your ass.

Mergers are good and bad. The forced AC/Canadian merger just cost everyone money, jobs and the industry is just getting back on track. Thank you government intervention!!

Companies are greedy and none of them want competition and as far as being loyal to their customers, WS has demonstrated several times in the past that they will bail on a route as soon as it becomes marginal. You can only cut prices so far and even load factors won't keep you in the air. Look at WOW

Part of the issue is the north is spoiled. Not that long ago 1 sked a week, now they want 5 a day and jet service as well. The numbers don't lie, There is not enough for 2 705 jet operators in the north. I can see the only two choices, draw up the boundaries and each take a section or merge.
Then maybe both airlines should start cutting back. YVR is great for connections. Aircraft comfort is not considered in a merger. A380 pax think a 737 is crap.
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valleyboy
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by valleyboy » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:45 am

A380 pax think a 737 is crap.
I can't agree with that since in the opinion of many the best ride in the industry today is the Embraer (Air Canada config) and I certainly can agree as well. But we are drifting here.

Everyone wants cheap seats, most everyone, I for one would rather pay more for an enjoyable flight compared to what we get today.

Small communities must accept the fact that they will pay higher fares. The north has started to judge by "southern" standards. We just need to look at other carriers (Bearskin/Perimeter,Calm Air and Wasaya) It costs more for an 1 hour flight than a return flight to Europe. Fare structure is based on the aircraft capacity.

There is also a passenger dynamics difference between YK and Frob traffic. There is a far higher percentage of "connections" out of the West as compared to the East. While almost all passengers are continuing on originating in Yellowknife the opposite is true in Iqualuit. Ottawa and Montreal are their final destinations.

We can bat this around forever but the fact remains that the north will not viably support 2 "large" aircraft operators. How the end result is achieved will be an interesting time.
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Tertle
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by Tertle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:01 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5181975

Merger got the approval.
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leftoftrack
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by leftoftrack » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:15 pm

WOOHOO new airline to be called First Canadian
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dhc#
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by dhc# » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:58 pm

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Donald
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by Donald » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:42 pm

This is a merger in name only. The organizational structure and head office location clearly show this to be a takeover.

I've heard from friends that there are lots of 5T pilots running away as fast as they can.

Good luck!
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dhc#
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by dhc# » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:50 am

A little "birdie" mentioned to me that 5T is very short of crews on the Dash 8 and many cpt/cpt pairings happening lately.
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valleyboy
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by valleyboy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:56 am

it's a hard pill to swallow to go from a senior captain to about halfway down the seniority list. With the merge everyone keeps their seats but any roll backs and you might go from 73 captain to right seat on a dash or ATR. 7F has a lot of senior pilots who were working there prior to 5T ever existing. What would you do?
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FICU
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by FICU » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:09 am

All mid to junior F/Os leaving for Swoop left seats and a few to Air Canada. A few left for Encore left seats previously. Flight ops integration won’t be for a few years so nothing really changing for us other than uniform and livery when that eventually happens.
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FICU
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by FICU » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:14 am

valleyboy wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:56 am
it's a hard pill to swallow to go from a senior captain to about halfway down the seniority list. With the merge everyone keeps their seats but any roll backs and you might go from 73 captain to right seat on a dash or ATR. 7F has a lot of senior pilots who were working there prior to 5T ever existing. What would you do?
You don’t seem to understand the merging of seniority lists. The majority of our F/Os moved on for left seats based in YEG. What would you do?
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valleyboy
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by valleyboy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:12 pm

I don't profess to be an expert but I have gone through a merger and also served as an MEC chair. Not to drag this out and put it simply after the merge and positions red circled you will have people in positions out of seniority. All is good until there is a lay off or bids. The new red circled dash captain could be waiting for the jet money seat for some time. The seniority list will fix its self but it takes time.
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dhc#
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Re: Canadian/First Air Merger

Post by dhc# » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:47 pm

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