Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

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enbt
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Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by enbt »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5044938

It’s been a long time coming, so not a total surprise. Still, I don’t see how life jackets would have helped in the Lyall Harbour example they use in the article, or the many other cases where passengers are trapped inside and drown. Wearing a life jacket isn’t going to help with that.

I predict folks will panic and inflate while still inside and make the situation worse.

Focus should me on making egress easier IMO. Door handles, pop out windows etc. Heck, an oxygen canister in every seat pocket would give people more time to get past the panic stage and get out.

Interested to hear others thoughts on this.
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47north
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by 47north »

So on a Cessna or Beaver you will have to wear them. On an Otter or Twin Otter no.

Not sure if that makes sense.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by PilotDAR »

Lifejackets, proper use of three or more point harnesses, and a good briefing on how the door operates, with the passenger practicing. I'm in favour. A life jacket made the life or death difference for me.

If passengers inflate the lifejacket in the cabin, or fail to use their seatbelt, or forget how to operate the door, what can you do. Anyone can misuse safety equipment. The duty is to provide and instruct it, not babysit it.
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JasonE
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by JasonE »

I'm in favour. I always wear a life jacket in a boat.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by BGH »

Always have worn life jackets & so have my passengers in my 185,you don’t have to wear them if you don’t want to - but you won’t be getting in my plane.
Full briefing on doors,windows ,seat belts & life jackets prior to entry for every flight.

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C.W.E.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by C.W.E. »

I also am in support of wearing life vests, mine are top quality inflatable and are not uncomfortable to wear.
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PeterReid
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by PeterReid »

Here's the publication for those interested.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2019/ ... 9-eng.html
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HiFlyChick
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by HiFlyChick »

PeterReid wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:00 am Here's the publication for those interested.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2019/ ... 9-eng.html
It is weird that they cite that example of people drowning in the aircraft - if you can't get out of the aircraft, it pretty much doesn't matter whether you're wearing a lifejacket or not.

In reading the feedback from the industry, I also found it interesting that those in favour of egress training included two companies that do that sort of training. Not exactly unbiased comment....
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by Daniel Cooper »

How is Kirsten Stevens doing these days? Does anyone stay in contact with her?
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

Pros and cons to both sides of the argument. If used correctly I would be of the opinion that it's a good decision. But unfortunately I believe that predominantly people will panic and inflate the jacket inside, which as stated if one person in the back does it it can kill everyone else.

The bigger issue I believe is the egress, especially in todays society of obese human beings.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by Maynard »

47north wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:12 pm So on a Cessna or Beaver you will have to wear them. On an Otter or Twin Otter no.

Not sure if that makes sense.
Otter would also require them, 9 pax.
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47north
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by 47north »

Maynard wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:01 am
47north wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:12 pm So on a Cessna or Beaver you will have to wear them. On an Otter or Twin Otter no.

Not sure if that makes sense.
Otter would also require them, 9 pax.
Harbour Air’s turbine Otters hold up to 14 passengers. Not sure about other operators.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by PilotDAR »

So on a Cessna or Beaver you will have to wear them. On an Otter or Twin Otter no.

Not sure if that makes sense.
I opine that TC has the statistics, I imagine that there have bee a lot more Beaver and smaller floatplanes upside down in the water, than larger than Beaver. And, the larger planes tend to have an aisle, which probably increases exit opportunity.
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TWSC
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by TWSC »

The mandatory egress training makes a lot of sense but the prior wearing of lifejackets makes absolutely no difference in whether you're gonna get out of the aircraft or not. Seems like a poorly thought out solution to me
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by valleyboy »

I find this a little ironic. I guess I will need to read the the gazette but nothing is perfect. I am going through the same thing in a jet boat. I always wore a vest while doing white water and rapids but I have since put a compression seat and harness along with a roll cage and it forces me to rethink the PFD I'm going to use. It has the same issues as an aircraft since if you are under the boat you certainly don't want positive buoyancy until clear. The life vests passed out by airlines are not built for that kind of use. A manual inflating type like a mustang is about $300 a pop and mighty prone to theft. I would like to hear solutions and if anyone has a good suggestion for a vest or do I add a new manual mustang to my inventory. Less productivity with new FTD coming and short trips will have longer briefing than actual flight time, all adding to your duty day.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by PilotDAR »

The mandatory egress training makes a lot of sense but the prior wearing of lifejackets makes absolutely no difference in whether you're gonna get out of the aircraft or not. Seems like a poorly thought out solution to me
I did not use my egress training, it was not needed, I was ejected through the windshield. I am a surviving expert to tell you that when you're injured, and loosing consciousness, having a lifejacket on, and only having to inflate it is life or death. It is very unlikely that you will take a packaged lifejacket with you when you leave the cabin underwater. Taking the egress training will teach you that - it did for me.
Less productivity with new FTD coming and short trips will have longer briefing than actual flight time, all adding to your duty day.
It'll immediately be worth it if one of those passengers must use the lifejacket after a splash.

Buy the manual Mustang or EAM, if you can afford the marine vehicle, you can afford the quality inflatable life jacket. For a rough ride boat, the proper thing would be a whitewater rafting PFD combined with a helmet.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by RatherBeFlying »

The accident Beaver was equipped with emergency exits by the military that the operator was forced to remove by Transport Canada.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by co-joe »

I find this stupid. 11 people now in total have died in the 206 because they couldn't get out of the airframe while inverted and submerged. We have to look like we're doing something...ok everyone has to wear life jackets now. WTF? Now we'll have dead people wearing life jackets in inverted submerged 206's.
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TWSC
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by TWSC »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 pm
The mandatory egress training makes a lot of sense but the prior wearing of lifejackets makes absolutely no difference in whether you're gonna get out of the aircraft or not. Seems like a poorly thought out solution to me
I did not use my egress training, it was not needed, I was ejected through the windshield. I am a surviving expert to tell you that when you're injured, and loosing consciousness, having a lifejacket on, and only having to inflate it is life or death. It is very unlikely that you will take a packaged lifejacket with you when you leave the cabin underwater. Taking the egress training will teach you that - it did for me.
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Last edited by TWSC on Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mandatory life jacket wearing coming for most seaplanes

Post by TWSC »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 pm
The mandatory egress training makes a lot of sense but the prior wearing of lifejackets makes absolutely no difference in whether you're gonna get out of the aircraft or not. Seems like a poorly thought out solution to me
I did not use my egress training, it was not needed, I was ejected through the windshield. I am a surviving expert to tell you that when you're injured, and loosing consciousness, having a lifejacket on, and only having to inflate it is life or death. It is very unlikely that you will take a packaged lifejacket with you when you leave the cabin underwater. Taking the egress training will teach you that - it did for me.
Less productivity with new FTD coming and short trips will have longer briefing than actual flight time, all adding to your duty day.
It'll immediately be worth it if one of those passengers must use the lifejacket after a splash.

Buy the manual Mustang or EAM, if you can afford the marine vehicle, you can afford the quality inflatable life jacket. For a rough ride boat, the proper thing would be a whitewater rafting PFD combined with a helmet.
What about in a situation where you're not ejected out of the aircraft and you have to get yourself out? Then it's not a situation where you can just pull the inflate cord. I totally agree in the ejection situation it is life and death but only once you're out. I can def see a majority of people not taking the packaged one so this would fix that problem, but I feel like at the same time it makes an egress inherently more risky because of premature inflation.
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