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Honest question: wouldn't an English transmission be understood by more people, even in Quebec?
We misunderstood. You did write "Why is English not mandatory on the radio in Canada?" That does sound like you want to change the rules to make it mandatory.
Braun,Braun wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:00 pm Geee, thanks for quoting me and starting a bonfire. I've read enough of your posts here and there to not get into an argument with you, you're clearly more knowledgeable on what is safer and better for us. So thanks! I'll make sure the whole VFR GA population that doesn't speak English in Quebec (and yes there are people who don't speak English to an adequate level) stop flying and attend your language and communication school.
Honestly, I'd be happy to just get adequate readbacks (in whatever language) by ''professional'' pilots. To me that is much more of a safety issue.
Actually I was unaware of the history on this issue. So thanks for this. Most interesting.ahramin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:34 pm Your common sense doesn't have much sense, but I'll agree on the waste of time. However, if you really want to know, the main reason the French are so rabid about speaking French on the radio is because they keep getting attacked for speaking French.
If you don't know how this all started, I'll try to sum up though my history lesson is distant and I'm fuzzy on some details. English used to be the only language in aviation in Canada. We were a bilingual nation, but not in the air. Then one day a French controller said to another French controller sitting next to him "L'avion blablabla va faire bloubloublou" and the supervisor overheard them. Of course this was totally VERBOTEN (there's really no English word that conveys the proper level Forbidenness). Both controllers were suspended or censured or something because "French is unsafe in aviation" (sounds like familiar not so sensical common sense). So the union or civil liberties association or local militia or whatever took up a call to arms over the issue and after Transport Canada failed to resolve it quickly Trudeau stepped in and mandated the creation of the current system (French allowed and required to be available for all level of service in Québec and Ottawa). Anglophone pilots went on strike, Ontario politicians went bananas, but Trudeau being a true federalist felt that it was important not to piss off the Québecers over small issues with little benefit. Keep in mind that if the original supervisor had used some common sense, we mightn't be here today and non English speakers might well be relegated to non towered airports in Québec.
So I can understand why over 40 years of continued and common nonsense of "French on the radio is dangerous" and "There's going to be an accident" has made them a little deranged to the point where they feel they need to speak French on the radio to prove a point. Maybe if some common sense is used in the next 40 years to say "geez, it makes ME uncomfortable but it makes a lot of THEM more comfortable and there's absolutely no data to support my point of view, maybe I'll just leave it alone" and everyone stops trying to force them to stop when they know it's not going to happen, maybe, just maybe, they'll give it up and choose the safer option. Maybe ... but we're talking about a nation that have Je Me Souvien on their licence plate parbleu. I mean they're still talking about how some farmers with muskets got their asses kicked sur les plaines d'Abraham by British Red Coats. Red Coats for smegs sake. Professional soldiers that could fire 4 rounds a minute and if you killed half of them, would respond by closing up ranks and continue firing. Against farmers with minimal training, none of it with live rounds.
It's as bad as those phsycho Air Canada pilots still monumentally pissed 20 years later that they didn't get to destroy the careers of their peers at Canadian and instead were expected to act like adults and make the best of an unfortunate situation.
Why the distinction? It's a safety issue, right? Language misunderstandings that cause accidents don't stop at provincial boundaries so why are you only concerned in Ontario?I don't have any particular issue with pilots using French in Quebec controlled or otherwise. Ok? Peace?
In Ontario -- which I repeatedly referenced was the basis of my own experiences -- and particularly west of Ottawa, might be a different story.
So do share your experience. If there is an actual problem as you claim then the more people who know about it the better. Transport Canada has been know to take up issues like this with circulars and information drives. Transport Canada routinely requires the bilingual airlines in Canada to publish memos reminding everyone not to use French unless both crews understand. I'd like to support your position but you're not making it possible. You have referenced a midair in Carp but there doesn't seem to be anything pertaining to that midair that supports your argument. You have claimed that pilots are speaking French on the radio in other parts of Ontario, but I can't seem to wrap my head around how you know they are in Ontario since they are speaking French and the whole problem with French on the radio seems to be that you don't know where they are.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:26 amIn Ontario -- which I repeatedly referenced was the basis of my own experiences -- and particularly west of Ottawa, might be a different story.
Very true!Jet Jockey wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:24 am having flown all over the world where local languages are also used at all sorts of airports, I cannot agree with the philosophy that only “English” should be used. There are many areas of the world where locals, even airline pilots are not proficient in english or not enough to communicate properly so it makes sense for them to talk to ATC or do position reports in their own language.
No, I won't. Because a quick look at the accident rate shows that there is no safety risk in flying through China without being able to speak Mandarin. What's silly is claiming that not learning a language is safe unless it's someone else that doesn't learn a language in which case it's dangerous.
Your claim is in dispute. The number of airports you can fly into in mainland China is very limited; the majority are Mandarin only. The ATC folks at ?all the non international airports there do not speak a word of English. There is no safety risk because you can’tdo it.
Multiple occasions heard, (over the years) at low altitude, well inside Ontario -- over 100 nm -- on 126.70 and different Unicom frequencies while I was transiting. Can't recall one when I was actually landing -- to be fair, except perhaps Ottawa, which was controlled.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:35 pm
I'm a GA pilot who has flown into Quebec but more often into Eastern Ontario. I'd heard French both in controlled and uncontrolled airspace, the latter certainly is a safety concern for someone with extremely rusty French when it gets really busy.
By that rational we should allow Chinese in the lower mainland.
Again, either provide facts (incident/accident reports with language as a root cause or contributing factors) or first hand experiences where language was a safety issue, not your relatively inexperienced aviator’s opinion.Again, either provide facts (incident/accident reports with language as a root cause or contributing factors) or first hand experiences where language was a safety issue, not your relatively inexperienced aviator’s opinion?
What he said......
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