English Vs French on the Radio.

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Gino Under
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Gino Under » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:43 pm

It's 2019 and I can't believe this English-French language debate rages on. It's one of the stupidest arguments one could ever possibly engage themselves in. The poor sheltered Canadian pilot. Threads like this amplify how petty and small this language debate has become.
Try flying outside Canada for awhile if you think language is a "safety issue". C'mon. Put some thought into it before you post.

Those poor unfortunate British Airways pilots flying into Casablanca having deal with English, French AND Arabic on the airwaves. I don't know how they've managed to operate without a catastrophe in so many decades of flying. However could that be? What about those poor Canadian pilots who have to deal with English and an occasional spattering of French over the airwaves? How unbearably dangerous flying in Canadian airspace must be???

Canadian pilots think English is the International language of aviation. Period. Which is true, but if some were to look closer, they'd find many countries where English is NOT the national language it is not uncommon to hear other languages on the frequency. Perfectly acceptable.

Gino Under :butthead:
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C.W.E.
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:43 pm

I also flew all over the world and each country had their own language that they communicated in.

In every country I flew in when I transmitted a request or a message in English I was answered in English which is the international language of aviation.

When flying in Canada and entering Quebec I had no problem with hearing their version of French being spoken and like every other country on earth when I communicated in English I was answered in English, they have as much right to speak in the language of their country as anyone else on earth. .
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valleyboy
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by valleyboy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:59 pm

A lot of the time Russians only have one person on board who speaks English and it's usually not one of the pilots. I wonder what language is spoken when they are at home?
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ahramin
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by ahramin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:08 pm

Doug Eves wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:10 pm
I am new to this forum as of today and looked at this blog simply because I KNEW it would be interesting to look at. At least for a page or so and then I became quite bored. One language on the airways is enough and should be mandatory in Canada and the entire planet. It just makes sense. I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand. Unfortunate for the anti English crowd but I wonder why the big guys with many passengers all speak English. Not too difficult to figure out.
If it's as dangerous as you think then wouldn't you be learning French before flying 182 knots through that airspace? Or slow down?

Where did you get the idea that the big guys with many passengers all speak English? Not too difficult to figure out that there are big planes all over the world speaking French, not to mention Spanish and Russian. Even in Canada.
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Mooney21
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Mooney21 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:52 am

Doug Eves wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:10 pm
I am new to this forum as of today and looked at this blog simply because I KNEW it would be interesting to look at. At least for a page or so and then I became quite bored. One language on the airways is enough and should be mandatory in Canada and the entire planet. It just makes sense. I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand. Unfortunate for the anti English crowd but I wonder why the big guys with many passengers all speak English. Not too difficult to figure out.

You sound like a troll. Anyway, did you make a position report near Sherbrooke? If you would have, you very likely would have received a reply in English from traffic in the area, and if you did not, you have no reason to complain about the language used in this area.
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Schooner69A
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Schooner69A » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:10 am

"I flew through Quebec on my way to PEI last summer at 182 knots and came very close to a mid air near Sherbrooke due to a french position report that I could not understand."

And do you know how many "near collisions" there are when the participants are speaking the SAME language? Your little incident pales in comparison.

Ponder this: how often do you make position reports? Every 10 minutes? Every 30 minutes? Over prominent geographical features only?

Between those calls, there exists possibility of finding yourself in close proximity to another aircraft.

In that case, what would be the cause? Language difficulties?


Or just poor lookout...?

If you became "...quite bored after reading a page or two...", then I think we've pinned down the nexus of your 'near collision'...
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Gino Under
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Gino Under » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:20 am

Doug Eves

With every bit of respect due your comment, and I understand what you're saying, THERE IS a profound difference between VFR and IFR flying. Before I had enough qualifications and experience and well before TCAS, I understood the survival game in VMC was "Stay alert and watch for other aircraft". Transport Canada even distributed posters back then throughout the flying community in Canada with that very saying. They may still do today.
Language?
Well, in recent years, two Chinese students had a midair near St. Hubert. Was it a language issue or complacency? There are also a couple of rather famous midair collisions in California back in the 70's involving an Aeromexico DC-9 and a light aircraft. You might even have seen that famous picture of a PSA B-727 spiraling toward the ground with flame shooting out of the wing root after a midair with a light plane. Everyone in both midairs was speaking english.
I find it a difficult task to chuck s**t at bilingual ATC in Quebec when it's quite a simple task to ask ATC for a radar traffic advisory when flying in areas of significant air traffic without TCAS.
Sorry. Language is a non-starter. If you think you understand more clearly in English if everyone spoke English, then imagine speaking Arabic or Mandarin to someone who responded in kind. The clarity of communication would be true in whatever language you tried to defend.
English IS the language of aviation but it isn't the "exclusive" language of aviation.

Gino :drinkers:
STAY ALERT AND WATCH FOR OTHER AIRCRAFT
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:08 am

I find it a difficult task to chuck s**t at bilingual ATC in Quebec
Let me help you figure it out Gino, my comment was based on having flown for many years in France and their comments on how French is spoken in Quebec.
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Beefitarian » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:42 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:08 am
I find it a difficult task to chuck s**t at bilingual ATC in Quebec
Let me help you figure it out Gino, my comment was based on having flown for many years in France and their comments on how French is spoken in Quebec.
c'est de la merde
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Gino Under
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Gino Under » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:25 pm

C.W.E.
If I might help YOU figure it out.
The majority of spoken French in Quebec is the French (accent and dialect) that arrived here when the first French settlers arrived. (Try looking up the Habitants) It has evolved from there as has the English that arrived here with the first English settlers. Unlike the French spoken in France today which is the result of an entirely different European influence. How could they be the same following such a disconnect? So, by insinuating that the “real” French is only spoken in France today is akin to saying the English we speak in Canada isn’t the real English. The “real” English is only spoken in the U.K.
Horsesh*t!
Then there are the regional dialects and accents we hear in English, y’all. Other languages have their own expressions, dialects, and colloquialisms. Including Quebec AND Acadia. So whatever point you’re trying to make is lost on me and nothing more than a reflection of your ignorance.
Do non-French speaking Anglais actually believe these misconceptions (including yours) as to how well or how poorly the French language is spoken here has any credibility?
I guess the Irish descendants in NFLD today don’t speak “real” English, eh?
Let me ask you this, comment un anglophone pourrait-il savoir à quel point un Canadien français parle le Français?

Gino Under :partyman:
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Last edited by Gino Under on Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:34 pm

Gino, my comment was made based on what clients of mine made in France.

Sorry it got so far under your skin.
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Gino Under
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Gino Under » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:48 pm

How many times has a Brit scoffed at our accents or our use of English? What credibility or accuracy would you attach to the comment?
Now, why would you give a Frenchman such credibility for such inaccurate remarks about the French language used in Canada? Perhaps it’s because you don’t speak French yourself?
Honestly, it’s not that YOU got under my skin, it’s just that far too frequently I hear non-French speaking English Canadians (I have no idea what your language skills might be) opine on the French spoken here in Quebec? Zero credibility I’m afraid.
Because I may not understand slang used in the U.K. or the meaning of a particular phrase doesn’t mean their English is crap. But I could say it is. How is one better or more proper than the other? And why would anyone think it’s any different regarding the French spoken in Quebec?
I can tell you this, the English I speak while in the U.K. is clearly understood by the “real” English, no matter what they might think about my use of or accent.

Gino
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:31 pm

Looks like I should not have commented on this subject judging from your reaction Gino.

Having flown mostly outside of Canada since the early seventies and in over fifty different countries language is one of the least of my concerns flying wise as I was always able to communicate in the international language of aviation sufficient enough to have safely flown in what ever country I was in...

By the way I am part Native Indian and part Newfoundlander and in some parts of Newfoundland I am barely able to understand what they are saying, so you French are lucky to be able to understand each other so easily.

Once again I am sorry you are so offended.
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:55 pm

By the way Gino, of all the places I have worked and flown in North America is my favourite was Quebec City.
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by mixturerich » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:48 am

French in the radio is tolerable but it’s the rest of the crew speaking French around me while operating that drives me up the wall. It sure doesn’t make you feel like part of the crew. They’re not supposed to but it’s not a battle I want to engage in. It is what it is.
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Re: English Vs French on the Radio.

Post by Gino Under » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:49 am

C.W.E.
Not at all offended. Not at all. French speaking québécois may well be, but I’m not.
Language is divisive. In a country like ours it’s simply a shame we pick such petty issues to gnaw on.
Many throughout English Canada share a similar opinion that québécois French isn’t pure and is difficult to understand. Which is simply an ignorant belief. Especially in those who may not even speak French.
I’m a displaced maritimer. I’ve been in Quebec for awhile now. I’ve rarely encountered a problem using English and I’ve always tried to use what limited French language skills I possess to get by here.
When bilingual ATC was first introduced in the 70s we English pilots went through the same hissy fits in protest that planes will fall out of the sky if we allow it. The last 50 plus years have proven that notion was simply inaccurate and wrong.

mixturerich

Imagine just the opposite. Your speech and thought is in French. You have no command of English but get by in English, while most of those around you are speaking only English. Might you feel any different?

Gino
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