Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

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FOD
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by FOD » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:24 pm

Carbon tax in Canada isn’t about the environment, it’s not about climate change either. It’s a simple transfer of wealth. Unless the vast cesspool that exists in the other side of the world cleans up its act, you paying a ‘carbon tax’ isn’t going to make a lick of difference ‘practically’ to solving any problems. But hey, as long as it makes it makes you feel better. Virtue signaling at its worst. Canada is going to lead by example?? Hahahahaha

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SkySailor
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by SkySailor » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:04 pm

Old fella wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:43 pm
Ah, the environment and climate...... what is refreshing to see is the generational change as to what we did( to numerous to mention)the many years back. I applaud this generation in recognizing the continued ongoing damage and more to the point , demanding concrete action. Their voices will get much stronger as my crowd dies off- probably not soon enough. My fearless prediction is when my grandkids finish their working lives in 60+ years the biggest issue and expense will be cleaning up the Alberta oil/tar sands outhouse.
Tell me OF, have you even been to the "outhouse"? A person of your background combined with years of wisdom, could not make such an idiotic statement. Perhaps you're trolling. If not, this would be the classic, arrogant BS that comes from your part of Canada (Quebec, isn't it?). La Belle Province of hypocrisy and corruption. How is it that you stand at those fuel pumps filling your car with Saudi/Nigerian/Venezuelan "tar" brought up the St. Lawrence, and then turn up your nose at western Canadians, and their "outhouse". The hypocrisy of these enviro priests and their green religion cult like hysterics are becoming nothing but bad theatrics. And financial destruction. The only message I pick up from these elitists is, "do as I say, not as I do".
However, I gotta hand it to "your generation" for the mark you folks left on our earth. You bred like rabbits, which brilliantly created an expanding economy. All those rabbits needed houses. Your lil' ten thousand dollar shacks became million dollar shacks. You rode that employment magic carpet all the way to the top. Fat bonuses, unsustainable corporate pensions, and guaranteed single employer through your working years. You think SUVs are terrible, but you bought cars that could qualify as small ships. You created a standard that didn't measure a nations progress by ingenuity and productivity, but rather, CONSUMPTION. Or would greed be a better word? You pillaged the oceans, scorched the land mass, and poisoned the atmosphere. You wanted it all, so you elected political parties that bought you off. Social programs galore. If it felt good, it must be right. Billions upon billions, financed with debt. Generations now addicted to both personal and government spending, thanks to the greed of yours. Since you mentioned your grandchildren, how do feel about them paying off your bills? Perhaps your estate can ease the guilt.
Am I correct in assuming those years you spent at "The Regulator" left you with a comfortable pension? Unfortunately, for most in the private sector, Defined Benefit is something that disappeared with the dinosaur. Perhaps you had the foresight to see this when you were offered the civil servant position. Congrats. You played it well. However, I find it a little rich when the generation that has been most destructive to our environment, now comfortable in their high places, start getting real saintlike, wagging their crooked little fingers, and braying concern about younger generations. Get over yourselves.
I worked in that "outhouse". I'm thankful for it. I'm no keyboard jockey sitting in some cubicle. I don't spend 8 hours shoving "policy" around a desk. I don't destroy ambition and innovation by being an instrument of bureaucracy. And I'm not entitled to a defined benefit pension. That's ok. But it does mean working in the BITUMAN deposits of Alberta. It provides an income for daily expenses, and small additions to something that resembles a pension. I do it with a clear conscience, knowing my "sins" are contributing less than 2 percent of global emissions.
It's disgusting to listen to elitists babble on with their greeny bullshit, as they watch tankers float by (on waters not affected by a tanker ban), and lecture Albertans about being in "denial". If you're sooo convinced, grow a set and start protesting where the real abusers are, instead of directing your self absorbed, pretentious, narcissist, ignorant fake science at the easy target in western Canada.
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flyguy73
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by flyguy73 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:26 am

This opinion piece is so full of lies, it's embarrassing. A 767 burns about 8000lbs/hr. That's 4 tons. For a 4 hour trip, that's 16 tons of fuel. At $20/ton carbon tax, the ENTIRE carbon tax is $320. Spread over 200 passengers, that's $1.60 each. Even at $50/ton, that's $4.00 more per passenger.

Seriously, if this is the type of bullshit counter arguments put forth by the people opposed to the carbon tax, then we are doomed as the human species. Please think a little more about these numbers you read and think about if they actually make sense before spewing this drivel.
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flyguy73
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by flyguy73 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:35 am

FOD wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:24 pm
Carbon tax in Canada isn’t about the environment, it’s not about climate change either. It’s a simple transfer of wealth. Unless the vast cesspool that exists in the other side of the world cleans up its act, you paying a ‘carbon tax’ isn’t going to make a lick of difference ‘practically’ to solving any problems. But hey, as long as it makes it makes you feel better. Virtue signaling at its worst. Canada is going to lead by example?? Hahahahaha

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By analogy, there's a war in Syria. Does that mean we shouldn't bother trying to keep peace here? Glad I don't have you as my neighbour. I can only imagine the state of your house and possessions.
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Cleared4TheOption
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:17 am

I feel like we'd all be better off if people didn't choose to insult everyone with opposing views. Not only this issue, but every "left/right" issue. I'm so tired of the half truths and fudged numbers made up on both sides to make it sound like the other side is stupid or evil. The last decade it feels like the average IQ in North America dropped by half.

Can't people ever take a step back and pause to consider some arguments might actually be valid? The best solution to a problem doesn't come overnight, often isn't the first solution, and you need to start somewhere. The way carbon tax is being implemented may not be ideal, but it is technically a step in the right direction. Rather than arguing it shouldn't exist, energy should be put into how to make it work better. And no one can say it doesn't work as we haven't even given it a chance yet.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by iflyforpie » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:22 am

The price on airline tickets will go up, but those of us who live in places with carbon initiatives will be more able to afford them.

It’s amazing that with all of the mud slinging and hyper partisan politics that very few people look at the facts.

We’ve had a carbon tax in BC for ten years now. It sucks to pay more for gas... but that’s because most people only see the taxes that get added, not the ones that get taken away, or what the other benefits are.

Let’s compare BC to a more “business friendly” province like Alberta. If you make up to $130,000 in BC, you pay less income tax than you do in Alberta. Now, to be sure.. we still have PST... but if you’re making $100,000 here in BC you’d have to pay over $1000 in PST to pay the same amount of tax. If you’re a poor person making $40k a year in either province, the Albertan is stuck paying over $600 more a year in income tax, and the person in BC isn’t ever going to equal it in PST. Carbon tax is a drop in the bucket if you’re driving around 20,000km a year even on a midsize SUV at less than $200... and costs hidden in the price of groceries and goods is even less—lots of which is PST exempt and essentials which are also GST exempt.

BC also has no budgetary deficits which Alberta has had under both governments for over a decade.

As for behaviour alteration... a carbon tax didn’t do much for me. The thing that convinced me to go back to a four cylinder economy car was the oil companies and the way they keep jacking up prices. Just this month I saw gas prices rise $0.30/l when BCs Carbon tax only went up $0.01/l. I’m sure everyone is blaming Trudeau and the NDP and Liberals rather than the oil companies themselves... so it’s win win for the oil companies... except from people like me who drove 2200km over the long weekend for $140 in every bit as much comfort as someone in a hulking SUV.

And if anyone thinks that multi billion dollar infrastructures projects like pipelines and refineries will lead to cheaper fuel... I have ocean front property in Alberta you might be interested in.
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altiplano
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by altiplano » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:43 am

iflyforpie wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:22 am
The price on airline tickets will go up, but those of us who live in places with carbon initiatives will be more able to afford them.

It’s amazing that with all of the mud slinging and hyper partisan politics that very few people look at the facts.

We’ve had a carbon tax in BC for ten years now. It sucks to pay more for gas... but that’s because most people only see the taxes that get added, not the ones that get taken away, or what the other benefits are.

Let’s compare BC to a more “business friendly” province like Alberta. If you make up to $130,000 in BC, you pay less income tax than you do in Alberta. Now, to be sure.. we still have PST... but if you’re making $100,000 here in BC you’d have to pay over $1000 in PST to pay the same amount of tax. If you’re a poor person making $40k a year in either province, the Albertan is stuck paying over $600 more a year in income tax, and the person in BC isn’t ever going to equal it in PST. Carbon tax is a drop in the bucket if you’re driving around 20,000km a year even on a midsize SUV at less than $200... and costs hidden in the price of groceries and goods is even less—lots of which is PST exempt and essentials which are also GST exempt.

BC also has no budgetary deficits which Alberta has had under both governments for over a decade.

As for behaviour alteration... a carbon tax didn’t do much for me. The thing that convinced me to go back to a four cylinder economy car was the oil companies and the way they keep jacking up prices. Just this month I saw gas prices rise $0.30/l when BCs Carbon tax only went up $0.01/l. I’m sure everyone is blaming Trudeau and the NDP and Liberals rather than the oil companies themselves... so it’s win win for the oil companies... except from people like me who drove 2200km over the long weekend for $140 in every bit as much comfort as someone in a hulking SUV.

And if anyone thinks that multi billion dollar infrastructures projects like pipelines and refineries will lead to cheaper fuel... I have ocean front property in Alberta you might be interested in.
Good post on the topic. Lots of sense being made there.

Consumption taxes are better than income taxes. Let me be taxed on the choices I make.

We're paying the same gas prices today at $50/ barrel as we were at $150/ barrel in '08.

I'm not anti-pipelines, but I agree, it's not bringing us cheaper gas, just helping the oil companies get it to China and other foreign markets faster and realize a higher price for the resource. Some short term spin off benefit on jobs... Refineries on the other hand would bring cheaper cost at the pumps locally. Vertical integration of the resource should be the future.

1 pipeline built for 1 refinery built maybe...
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rookiepilot
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by rookiepilot » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:17 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:47 am

Consumption taxes are better than taxing things like income, or savings.

I would support more carbon and consumption taxation if they shifted the gain off my income and investment taxation.

Tax consumption, not creation.
Absolutely.

I've done a lot of reflection on this issue, and we MUST move towards a European model. Smaller cars, more trains, all electrified.

Governments need to get on with that.

Even Toronto's transit is an absolute joke compared to any European city.

Sorry Alberta, I am a fan of this carbon tax if administered fairly.
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Old fella
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by Old fella » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:22 pm

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skibum
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by skibum » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 pm

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Tail-Chaser
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by Tail-Chaser » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:08 pm

Another +1 for electric cars. I got mine last summer and I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I had an old Corolla that got about 8.3L/100km, costing about $14 per 100km in pure fuel costs based in YVR. With the EV, doing the same costs about $1.40. :D A huge part of what pushed me to change was paying ~$80 to fill up a Corolla with no end in sight. Got the EV the next week.
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SkySailor
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by SkySailor » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:56 pm

skibum wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 pm
https://youtu.be/3VJfzM0XwUA
Must be one of those ancient "deniers". Not many on this site will approve your link, skibum. Kinda takes the cool factor outta their electric vehicles.
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flyguy73
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by flyguy73 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:21 pm

SkySailor wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:56 pm
skibum wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 pm
https://youtu.be/3VJfzM0XwUA
Must be one of those ancient "deniers". Not many on this site will approve your link, skibum. Kinda takes the cool factor outta their electric vehicles.
I watched this video to get another view. I'm not sure who this Larry Smith character is, but he's no scientist. No respectable scientist would extrapolate a million years of slow climate change with what we have done in the past 100 years. It's not the same thing and not comparable.

While I am a scientist by profession I am not an environmental scientist. I am familiar with the scientific method and how experts study for years to understand the earth and it's mechanisms. Real scientists don't speak up until they have all the facts and then they explain themselves with facts. This does not work with most people as they lack the attention to listen to the details. But when literally thousands of scientists with PhD's stand up and say the climate is changing, who am I to say they are wrong?
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skibum
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by skibum » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:39 pm

flyguy73 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:21 pm
SkySailor wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:56 pm
skibum wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 pm
https://youtu.be/3VJfzM0XwUA
Must be one of those ancient "deniers". Not many on this site will approve your link, skibum. Kinda takes the cool factor outta their electric vehicles.
I watched this video to get another view. I'm not sure who this Larry Smith character is, but he's no scientist. No respectable scientist would extrapolate a million years of slow climate change with what we have done in the past 100 years. It's not the same thing and not comparable.

While I am a scientist by profession I am not an environmental scientist. I am familiar with the scientific method and how experts study for years to understand the earth and it's mechanisms. Real scientists don't speak up until they have all the facts and then they explain themselves with facts. This does not work with most people as they lack the attention to listen to the details. But when literally thousands of scientists with PhD's stand up and say the climate is changing, who am I to say they are wrong?
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article ... tists-many
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flyguy73
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by flyguy73 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:15 pm

skibum wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:39 pm
flyguy73 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:21 pm
SkySailor wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:56 pm


Must be one of those ancient "deniers". Not many on this site will approve your link, skibum. Kinda takes the cool factor outta their electric vehicles.
I watched this video to get another view. I'm not sure who this Larry Smith character is, but he's no scientist. No respectable scientist would extrapolate a million years of slow climate change with what we have done in the past 100 years. It's not the same thing and not comparable.

While I am a scientist by profession I am not an environmental scientist. I am familiar with the scientific method and how experts study for years to understand the earth and it's mechanisms. Real scientists don't speak up until they have all the facts and then they explain themselves with facts. This does not work with most people as they lack the attention to listen to the details. But when literally thousands of scientists with PhD's stand up and say the climate is changing, who am I to say they are wrong?
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article ... tists-many
Sorry, opinion pieces written by partisan, oil-sponsored organizations does not qualify as legitimate. The Fraser Institute is one of the worse partisan organizations in Canada.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by CpnCrunch » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:32 pm

flyguy73 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:15 pm
Sorry, opinion pieces written by partisan, oil-sponsored organizations does not qualify as legitimate. The Fraser Institute is one of the worse partisan organizations in Canada.
It's always good to check the facts yourself rather than relying on opinion pieces. I just decided to check one fact that appeared in that article:

"In 2012 the American Meteorological Society (AMS) surveyed its 7,000 members, receiving 1,862 responses. Of those, only 52% said they think global warming over the 20th century has happened and is mostly man-made (the IPCC position)"

Doing a quick google search turned up this more recent study from the AMS:

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/1 ... 15-00206.1

"In contrast to prior surveys, which found many weathercasters who were unconvinced of climate change, newer results show that approximately 80% of weathercasters are convinced of human-caused climate change."

And it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that counting the number of papers is a good way to gauge science. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more papers showing that homeopathy works than that it doesn't work.

The problem is that most people don't bother checking the facts, so they automatically believe whatever nonsense appears on their facebook feed.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Carbon tax will drive up airline tickets

Post by iflyforpie » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:35 pm

America is the world now... interesting.
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