Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

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intoflying
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Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by intoflying »

Hi All, I'm aware that it's legally not possible to fly people from source to destination without having some sort of air taxi license.

How about providing sightseeing. Can I get paid directly by someone to fly them over the city as long as we don't land anywhere and return to the same airport? basically sightseeing.
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Aviatard
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by Aviatard »

No.
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by PilotDAR »

No.
That covers the topic well.

Unless, of course, you're operating under the authority of an appropriate operating certificate, but then, you probably would not feel the need to ask the question.....

Thought of differently, unless the airplane, and the pilot are both "commercial", and there's an OC in effect for the flying, no passenger commerce should take place for the flight. There are a few exceptions, but not in the air taxi and sightseeing realm.
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intoflying
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by intoflying »

OK, so if the plane is owned by a corporation, and if the pilot hired is CPL, what kind of "operating certificate" does the company need to offer sightseeing as a service?
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intoflying
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by intoflying »

Transport Canada?
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Last edited by intoflying on Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
photofly
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by photofly »

Yes.
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by TheRealMcCoy »

You could just get them to pay for the gas?
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photofly
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by photofly »

You’d have to share the cost, they can’t pay all of it.
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by Aviatard »

I believe the test is that the passengers need be incidental to the flight. In other words you’d still do the flight even if the passengers didn’t go.
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photofly
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by photofly »

That’s not a great test, for instance you’re entitled to decide that without a passenger with whom to share the cost, it’s too expensive, and you won’t fly.
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confusedalot
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by confusedalot »

You clearly know the rules, so unless you have a cpl as a driver, can't do it legally. Then comes all of that commercial operating certificate stuff.

If you can set the whole thing up as a non profit, maybe that would work? Sketchy I know, but in this world of billion dollar corporations getting taxpayer handouts, who knows? Maybe it could fly.
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by Aviatard »

photofly wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:45 pm That’s not a great test, for instance you’re entitled to decide that without a passenger with whom to share the cost, it’s too expensive, and you won’t fly.
Right but you won’t be exposing the unsuspecting public to your unregulated death trap of a sight seeing operation if you don’t fly.
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Bede
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by Bede »

Here is a case dealing with this exact thing:

http://www.tatc.gc.ca/decision/decision ... dc_id=1498
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by lownslow »

PilotDAR wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:02 pm
No.
There are a few exceptions, but not in the air taxi and sightseeing realm.
If the airplane is something special there’s an exemption to holding a OC to provide ‘experience flights.’ That would be for warbird operators and the like, and there are still hoops to jump through.

I forget the exact wording of the thing, and I expect that TC would be fine if you did this in a T-6 and less fine with a T-41.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by jakeandelwood »

intoflying wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:08 pm OK, so if the plane is owned by a corporation, and if the pilot hired is CPL, what kind of "operating certificate" does the company need to offer sightseeing as a service?
Many corporately owned planes are private, so I don't think they have operating certificates as they don't carry paying passengers. I've never gotten an operating certificate but I imagine it is no quick and simple task.
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DanWEC
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by DanWEC »

Hey I'm only asking out of curiosity, what sort of license do you have?
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photofly
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by photofly »

jakeandelwood wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:17 pm Many corporately owned planes are private, so I don't think they have operating certificates as they don't carry paying passengers. I've never gotten an operating certificate but I imagine it is no quick and simple task.
All pressurized turbine aircraft with more than six seats and all jet aircraft need an operator’s certificate from Transport Canada even when operated privately. See Part 604.

Getting the certificate is not the problem, building and maintaining the staffing, maintenance and management structure to meet the requirements of holding a certificate is.
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Heliian
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by Heliian »

Part 604 can't do sightseeing for pay.

Only part 4 and part 7 operators can provide sightseeing flights. Those aircraft are staffed with CPL's

A CPL on it's own is not authorization, you're still a private pilot when flying your own plane.
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by PilotDAR »

So, intoflying, you can see the bump in your road by coming on to a website populated with many CPL's who fly by the rules, to say that you'd like to collect some revenue doing what they are paid to do, without jumping through the hoops they have. Good on you for asking, but this very well documented, and explained in regulation.

When the dust has cleared on your question here, look at the insurance on the plane. If you had an accident carrying paying passengers on a private flight, would the insurer be ready to cover you, even though you had not arranged the correct insurance for a commercial flight?
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Getting paid by client to provide sightseeing in my plane?

Post by jakeandelwood »

photofly wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:27 am
jakeandelwood wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:17 pm Many corporately owned planes are private, so I don't think they have operating certificates as they don't carry paying passengers. I've never gotten an operating certificate but I imagine it is no quick and simple task.
All pressurized turbine aircraft with more than six seats and all jet aircraft need an operator’s certificate from Transport Canada even when operated privately. See Part 604.

I did not know that.

Getting the certificate is not the problem, building and maintaining the staffing, maintenance and management structure to meet the requirements of holding a certificate is.
Yes, I can see that for sure.
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