Retirement age.

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confusedalot
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by confusedalot » Wed May 29, 2019 7:34 pm

Obviously I have zero clue of reality but here goes........

From real people I know,

Maritime lawyer quit at 70, not because he hated his job, but only because the firm was not so much fun anymore. He now set himself up with his own firm, and is getting contracts galore. Calls his own shots, likes what he does.

Small businessman wrapped it up at 85. He didn't need the money, he liked running a business.

US based guy will be ejected at 65 from a major. Has a corporate job all lined up. Imagine that.

Soooo.......What is this stuff about sitting in a couch eating chips as the end all and be all as a destination?

If you have a few million, I suppose you can spend your life on a cruise ship, suspect that very few have those kind of dollars.

Hey, I am learning to drop skydivers just out of sheer boredom. Oddly enough, hardest flying I have ever done. Tolerance for error is zero.

What is all of this stuff about
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by shimmydampner » Wed May 29, 2019 7:36 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:48 am

Why does it reek of millennial self entitlement? As a boomer myself what I read are well thought out arguments about how generational changes are impacting them.
Well that's exactly it, isn't it? They're blaming everyone and everything else for their perceived lack of success instead of looking in the mirror. That's down the checklist, first ballot, hall of fame entitlement. It's not a 65 year old airline captain's fault that an up and coming FO isn't going to go 777 captain exactly when they believe they are due. You make your own luck in this life. There has not been this much opportunity in aviation in recent decades. There is success by any measure to be had. It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice and/or work for and/or wait for. If wide body captain at AC is what constitutes success for you, guess what? You may have to wait for it. It may not happen on your personal schedule. To expect otherwise or to be unwilling to sacrifice, work or wait for what you want is the definition of entitlement. If that's what you want, wait for it. If it's the money, there are other ways to get it so you may have to switch gears and work for it. I'm so tired of pilots expecting that the universe owes them their dream job, while paying their dream compensation, offering their dream schedule in exactly the location they want to live. Life doesn't work that way. Grow up. What's most important to you? It's out there. Stop bitching and go get it.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by laserstrike » Wed May 29, 2019 7:43 pm

Ok so explain how that applies to someone who's at Air Canada and really just sitting pretty waiting for people to retire? In a company where progression is strictly based on seniority?

How can I sacrifice more to get ahead? Please tell me so I can get right on that.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Diadem » Wed May 29, 2019 9:12 pm

shimmydampner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:36 pm
Well that's exactly it, isn't it? They're blaming everyone and everything else for their perceived lack of success instead of looking in the mirror. That's down the checklist, first ballot, hall of fame entitlement. It's not a 65 year old airline captain's fault that an up and coming FO isn't going to go 777 captain exactly when they believe they are due. You make your own luck in this life. There has not been this much opportunity in aviation in recent decades. There is success by any measure to be had. It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice and/or work for and/or wait for. If wide body captain at AC is what constitutes success for you, guess what? You may have to wait for it. It may not happen on your personal schedule. To expect otherwise or to be unwilling to sacrifice, work or wait for what you want is the definition of entitlement. If that's what you want, wait for it. If it's the money, there are other ways to get it so you may have to switch gears and work for it. I'm so tired of pilots expecting that the universe owes them their dream job, while paying their dream compensation, offering their dream schedule in exactly the location they want to live. Life doesn't work that way. Grow up. What's most important to you? It's out there. Stop bitching and go get it.
The company where I started my career hired a ton of retired airline pilots to be 703 captains because they were bored and wanted to supplement their incomes. FOs weren't able to upgrade even when they met the hour requirements because there weren't any positions open. Obviously the company preferred to put 20000-hour people in the left seat, but that meant that FOs were left with the option of being stuck in the right seat, with correlating pay, or leaving for captain jobs elsewhere. Those former airline captains complained both about those who stuck around, because apparently they were too lazy to do anything about their situation, and about those who quit, because they weren't loyal. The problem isn't that there aren't opportunities to be seized, the problem is that opportunities are fewer than they were for previous generations because of those generations, and that those generations then have the audacity to complain about everything we do. I wouldn't care so much that old pilots aren't retiring, except that they simultaneously complain about the failings of everyone younger than them.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by laserstrike » Wed May 29, 2019 9:17 pm

Diadem wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:12 pm
shimmydampner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:36 pm
Well that's exactly it, isn't it? They're blaming everyone and everything else for their perceived lack of success instead of looking in the mirror. That's down the checklist, first ballot, hall of fame entitlement. It's not a 65 year old airline captain's fault that an up and coming FO isn't going to go 777 captain exactly when they believe they are due. You make your own luck in this life. There has not been this much opportunity in aviation in recent decades. There is success by any measure to be had. It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice and/or work for and/or wait for. If wide body captain at AC is what constitutes success for you, guess what? You may have to wait for it. It may not happen on your personal schedule. To expect otherwise or to be unwilling to sacrifice, work or wait for what you want is the definition of entitlement. If that's what you want, wait for it. If it's the money, there are other ways to get it so you may have to switch gears and work for it. I'm so tired of pilots expecting that the universe owes them their dream job, while paying their dream compensation, offering their dream schedule in exactly the location they want to live. Life doesn't work that way. Grow up. What's most important to you? It's out there. Stop bitching and go get it.
The company where I started my career hired a ton of retired airline pilots to be 703 captains because they were bored and wanted to supplement their incomes. FOs weren't able to upgrade even when they met the hour requirements because there weren't any positions open. Obviously the company preferred to put 20000-hour people in the left seat, but that meant that FOs were left with the option of being stuck in the right seat, with correlating pay, or leaving for captain jobs elsewhere. Those former airline captains complained both about those who stuck around, because apparently they were too lazy to do anything about their situation, and about those who quit, because they weren't loyal. The problem isn't that there aren't opportunities to be seized, the problem is that opportunities are fewer than they were for previous generations because of those generations, and that those generations then have the audacity to complain about everything we do. I wouldn't care so much that old pilots aren't retiring, except that they simultaneously complain about the failings of everyone younger than them.

I saw this a lot in 703/704. A few Captains came and went who were retired AC and Air North pilots. It pissed off a lot of the younger folks who were waiting for an upgrade. So a lot of them left to Jazz and Encore, and then had to deal with the shit talking people love to give out too those who leave 703 without any command time to go to the regionals. Well @#$!, maybe if Joe Pilot who's had a stellar career didn't come scooting in to a left seat because he was "bored."
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by TailwheelPilot » Thu May 30, 2019 5:29 am

I wouldn't care so much that old pilots aren't retiring, except that they simultaneously complain about the failings of everyone younger than them.
Ummm...doesn't every generation bitch and moan about older generations when they are young and the younger generations when they are old?

Absolutely no different from what you are doing, just the opposite end of the spectrum.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 am

shimmydampner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:36 pm
Fanblade wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:48 am

Why does it reek of millennial self entitlement? As a boomer myself what I read are well thought out arguments about how generational changes are impacting them.
Well that's exactly it, isn't it? They're blaming everyone and everything else for their perceived lack of success instead of looking in the mirror. That's down the checklist, first ballot, hall of fame entitlement. It's not a 65 year old airline captain's fault that an up and coming FO isn't going to go 777 captain exactly when they believe they are due. You make your own luck in this life. There has not been this much opportunity in aviation in recent decades. There is success by any measure to be had. It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice and/or work for and/or wait for. If wide body captain at AC is what constitutes success for you, guess what? You may have to wait for it. It may not happen on your personal schedule. To expect otherwise or to be unwilling to sacrifice, work or wait for what you want is the definition of entitlement. If that's what you want, wait for it. If it's the money, there are other ways to get it so you may have to switch gears and work for it. I'm so tired of pilots expecting that the universe owes them their dream job, while paying their dream compensation, offering their dream schedule in exactly the location they want to live. Life doesn't work that way. Grow up. What's most important to you? It's out there. Stop bitching and go get it.
Shimmydampner

Did you even read this posted on the previous page?

https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/06/ar ... bs/372652/

The grievance the generation has is factual. We are not moving out of our jobs like previous generations. Forget the why for a moment. Facts are facts. We aren’t moving out of our jobs and turning them over to the next generation as was done in the past. That must have downline consequences for our youth. There is no way around it.

On the flip side life isn’t fair. So get on with it. That’s true too. Kinda harsh coming from the generation that caused the issue though. Who sounds entitled in this scenario?
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:48 am

It's a vicious cycle unfortunately as Baby boomers, in many cases, are still supporting their younger millenial children (usually under 30 at this point) who are stuck in lower wage roles, returning to school to increase qualifications to differentiate their skillset on paper, or trying to buy their way into the housing market (ouch). This support causes financial strain on their (baby boomers) retirement plans, and so they keep on trucking (or trying to) well into their retirement years. The financial crisis of 2008, particularly in the US, really spoiled some 401ks, but looking at market trends they should have made back their money and then some had they stayed the course. So market or not, that money should be there, it's just how it's being spent is the problem.

I certainly don't look forward to an eventual retirement. I look forward to paying off my mortgage, I look forward to seeing my two kids grow up and helping them with whatever they need to succeed, and I look forward to all the fun along the way, but retirement is not something I'm excited about. So, I don't blame anyone for holding onto their seat, particularly if they are still enjoying it and helping to pass that wisdom onto that next generation.

S.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 30, 2019 4:15 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:48 am
It's a vicious cycle unfortunately as Baby boomers, in many cases, are still supporting their younger millenial children (usually under 30 at this point) who are stuck in lower wage roles, returning to school to increase qualifications to differentiate their skillset on paper, or trying to buy their way into the housing market (ouch). This support causes financial strain on their (baby boomers) retirement plans, and so they keep on trucking (or trying to) well into their retirement years.
So this vicious cycle that starts with boomer children failing to launch. Do you think Boomers not leaving there jobs might be a contributing factor?

This study says yes.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/06/ar ... bs/372652/
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by confusedalot » Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm

Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Thu May 30, 2019 5:52 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 4:15 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:48 am
It's a vicious cycle unfortunately as Baby boomers, in many cases, are still supporting their younger millenial children (usually under 30 at this point) who are stuck in lower wage roles, returning to school to increase qualifications to differentiate their skillset on paper, or trying to buy their way into the housing market (ouch). This support causes financial strain on their (baby boomers) retirement plans, and so they keep on trucking (or trying to) well into their retirement years.
So this vicious cycle that starts with boomer children failing to launch. Do you think Boomers not leaving there jobs might be a contributing factor?

This study says yes.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/06/ar ... bs/372652/
I agree with parts of the article that the progression of the millenial generation in many industries is stalled because the boomer generation won't leave the workforce, but they can't leave the workforce cause many are still supporting their children who have yet to find their feet financially. Hence the vicious cycle.

Then I went on to regail my fears of retirement and how I can see why so many boomers wanna keep their seats.

I was agreeing with ya Fanblade, just from a different angle is all.

Cheers bud,

S.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by laserstrike » Thu May 30, 2019 6:15 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
What about the 45-50 year olds who have been waiting for that widebody job or are we only talking about millennials?

It's a bigger issue than just millennials.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Diadem » Thu May 30, 2019 6:20 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
The hiring boom at AC that's driven the hiring everywhere else would have started five years earlier if they hadn't been forced to raise the retirement age. Millennials are finally getting to the left seat at the airlines, but it was delayed by Boomers who thought they deserved five more years of income than every previous AC pilot got.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Old fella » Thu May 30, 2019 8:20 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
Finally somebody has a handle in a roundabout way....... demographics. We(the country’s citizens) are not producing little boys and girls, not much multiplying going on. I don’t know how many siblings Confusedalot’s parents produced but there were six of us on our side. That’s unheard of now and the lack of youngsters is starting to show, so there will be flying jobs no matter how many old buzzards decide to continue to flap their wings, also tis 100% certain the buzzards at some point will take their leave and/or keel over - at the right time hopefully :) . Confusedalot ain’t confused, no sir!
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by yycflyguy » Fri May 31, 2019 8:29 am

Old fella wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:20 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
Finally somebody has a handle in a roundabout way....... demographics. We(the country’s citizens) are not producing little boys and girls, not much multiplying going on. I don’t know how many siblings Confusedalot’s parents produced but there were six of us on our side. That’s unheard of now and the lack of youngsters is starting to show, so there will be flying jobs no matter how many old buzzards decide to continue to flap their wings, also tis 100% certain the buzzards at some point will take their leave and/or keel over - at the right time hopefully :) . Confusedalot ain’t confused, no sir!
Currently, immigration accounts for 71 per cent of Canada's population growth and has accounted for as much as 90 per cent of labour force growth in recent years. By 2034, the number of deaths in Canada is anticipated to exceed births and immigration is expected to account for 100 per cent of population growth.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Fanblade » Fri May 31, 2019 9:05 am

Old fella wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:20 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
Finally somebody has a handle in a roundabout way....... demographics. We(the country’s citizens) are not producing little boys and girls, not much multiplying going on. I don’t know how many siblings Confusedalot’s parents produced but there were six of us on our side. That’s unheard of now and the lack of youngsters is starting to show, so there will be flying jobs no matter how many old buzzards decide to continue to flap their wings, also tis 100% certain the buzzards at some point will take their leave and/or keel over - at the right time hopefully :) . Confusedalot ain’t confused, no sir!
For your statement to be accurate Canada’s population would be decreasing. It’s not. It’s growing. Those babies are still being born, plus some, just in other parts of the world.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by Old fella » Fri May 31, 2019 12:42 pm

yycflyguy wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:29 am
Old fella wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:20 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Gonna cal bs on this.......

Millenials are sitting in (eventually) super high paying seats. It started about 4-5 years ago.

They will be flying in the stratosphere in a matter of 1-2 years.

So.....this stuff about a handful of bored old guys taking away a tiny handful of jobs from the poor young is not supported by the stats.

The big guys are almost excusively hiring millenials.
Finally somebody has a handle in a roundabout way....... demographics. We(the country’s citizens) are not producing little boys and girls, not much multiplying going on. I don’t know how many siblings Confusedalot’s parents produced but there were six of us on our side. That’s unheard of now and the lack of youngsters is starting to show, so there will be flying jobs no matter how many old buzzards decide to continue to flap their wings, also tis 100% certain the buzzards at some point will take their leave and/or keel over - at the right time hopefully :) . Confusedalot ain’t confused, no sir!
Currently, immigration accounts for 71 per cent of Canada's population growth and has accounted for as much as 90 per cent of labour force growth in recent years. By 2034, the number of deaths in Canada is anticipated to exceed births and immigration is expected to account for 100 per cent of population growth.
Good to hear, I fully support immigration. Met some recent people who came over, outstanding folks who will undoubtedly make positive contributions. By 2034 I probably won’t be around so the very best to continued immigration in those years and beyond.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by hst » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am

oneplus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:59 pm
whats the $ threshold when one can retire?
Try using this government website. It’s not perfect but might give you some clues on what $$ you need to retire. As has been written earlier retirement goals are very individual.
https://srv111.services.gc.ca/generalinformation/index

I’d ideally be content to retire on 70% of my present income. That might not be doable and will likely be somewhere around 60%. That’s debt free living to a life expectancy of 85. If I go early the wife and boys will have a little extra. If I stick around longer my CPP and OAS plus 25% of present income should be enough to put me in a home. 😠
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 am

hst wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am
oneplus wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:59 pm
whats the $ threshold when one can retire?
Try using this government website. It’s not perfect but might give you some clues on what $$ you need to retire. As has been written earlier retirement goals are very individual.
https://srv111.services.gc.ca/generalinformation/index

I’d ideally be content to retire on 70% of my present income. That might not be doable and will likely be somewhere around 60%. That’s debt free living to a life expectancy of 85. If I go early the wife and boys will have a little extra. If I stick around longer my CPP and OAS plus 25% of present income should be enough to put me in a home. 😠
That is an awesome tool. The big problem is knowing the level of inflation and what income will work in 20-30 or 40 years down the road for some people.

It's comforting seeing some big numbers with conservative estimates.

Thanks for sharing hst.

S.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by ant_321 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:22 am

That’s a pretty neat tool. I guess I’m in better shape than I thought. With the rate I’m saving I should be getting $125k in today’s dollars assuming it’s in the ball park for inflation. Maybe I can afford that Porsche. 😉
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by CpnCrunch » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:14 pm

ant_321 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:22 am
That’s a pretty neat tool. I guess I’m in better shape than I thought. With the rate I’m saving I should be getting $125k in today’s dollars assuming it’s in the ball park for inflation. Maybe I can afford that Porsche. 😉
Note that by default it gives you an income until age 71. Change to 85 and it drops by over 60%. Look garefully at the income table by year...

Very misleading.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by squash junky » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:41 am

I retired at 51 yrs old.
I had 22 yrs of capt. under my belt with the last 10 as cpt 777
The chief pilot said I wouldn't be able to stay away as I loved flying A LOT :-D
Turns out I like fishing even more and a load of other stuff
Did it, done it, and even got the t-shirt.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by laserstrike » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:46 am

squash junky wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:41 am
I retired at 51 yrs old.
I had 22 yrs of capt. under my belt with the last 10 as cpt 777
The chief pilot said I wouldn't be able to stay away as I loved flying A LOT :-D
Turns out I like fishing even more and a load of other stuff
Did it, done it, and even got the t-shirt.
Good for you. I'm jealous... That's my goal but I don't think it will happen.

No one from the generations after you will have the same opportunity.
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by CpnCrunch » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:51 am

laserstrike wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:46 am
No one from the generations after you will have the same opportunity.
That comment doesn't make sense...salaries are higher now than ever. Take-home pay for 777 captain is about $180k for $300k salary. Save 100k for 10 years and you'll have sufficient income from investments to be able to retire comfortably at any age. RSP doesn't even matter. Do the math...
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Re: Retirement age.

Post by confusedalot » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:21 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:51 am
laserstrike wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:46 am
No one from the generations after you will have the same opportunity.
That comment doesn't make sense...salaries are higher now than ever. Take-home pay for 777 captain is about $180k for $300k salary. Save 100k for 10 years and you'll have sufficient income from investments to be able to retire comfortably at any age. RSP doesn't even matter. Do the math...
Exactly. But hey, they just don't get it. Lots is missing in the millenial database.

A conversation with the ww2 people would blow their minds.

I consider myself lucky that I did not have to live through that. Had to endure the 9/11 fallout though, but the young ones don't even know about that.

Oh well, it is what it is.
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