Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

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jumpyberry
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Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by jumpyberry »

If this is the wrong forum, mods please feel free to move it.

I am prone to some anxiety, and I've suffered from panic attacks before. I have kids overseas, so I have dedicated the last several years since they were born to going back and forth between N. America and Asia for them. Sometimes it's been hard.

I have a major anxiety about flying about a decade ago (around 2009 - 2010), but I have done some mindfulness work, taken a fear of flying course online, and a bit of counseling. Generally speaking, it helps when the flights are with an airline with a stellar safety record (ANA, Singapore, etc.) on the "top 20" lists. It helps with the aircraft that are bigger too.

I am getting ready to return overseas. I booked flights a month ago. At the time the flights seemed good. I booked "Air Canada Express" from the northwest U.S to Vancouver.

I have neither taken a regional airline before nor a turboprop plane before. At times, I also purposely avoided taking both due to the perceived slightly higher risk of an accident. This trip I booked Air Canada Express thinking I should be alright.

As I inch closer to the flights at the end of this week though I'm just getting nervous. I did see that Jazz Air (now Air Canada Express) has had a pretty large amount of incidents in recent years. In fact, on this web site, they seem to have the 5th largest number of incidents according to the list that ranks airlines by number of incidents on the index page.

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/jazz

I'm just looking for a bit of reassurance from community members here. Because I'm nervous about flying. It's my first time taking a turboprop and I've never taken one before. I was preparing myself to take my first turboprop, but then I saw the large number of incidents with Jazz Air / Air Canada Express.

Most importantly, I saw at the end of this week there is bad weather forecast for the day I'm supposed to fly. The forecast is calling for thunderstorms and some heavy rain. It's been very sunny in Portland for the last few weeks. That day looks like the first day with bad weather. So I keep worrying thinking about my first time in a turboprop and having bad weather.

I'm just worried that the turbulence might be terrifying? The sound of these engines will be unfamiliar. I also worry and seeking some honest advice, feedback, and perhaps reassurance (if it's warranted) both about this aircraft the Bombardier Dash 8 Q400.

I thought that generally I was 'cured' of my fear of flying, though unfortunately it's come back for the first time in a few years. This just feels like a moment of weakness for me perhaps.

I feel kind of embarassed to post this actually. I'm just not sure what kind of replies I may get. But hopefully some replies would be good that are educational or reassuring.

Thank you
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ahramin
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by ahramin »

I'm reading a book on parenting right now and the author often compares the risk of something to the risk of putting your baby in a car. If you ride in cars there's no point being worried about eating sushi while pregnant or sleeping in the same bed as your baby since the risk is a fraction of what you are already accepting.

You could go with the same strategy for flying. Once you get to PDX, the riskiest part of the journey is done until you get out of the terminal in Asia.

As for Jazz, it has the highest paid regional airline pilots and mechanics in North America, with the concomitant experience levels. The pilots aren't scared of turbulence because turbulence doesn't cause accidents so no need for you to be afraid either. They are very afraid of flying in thunderstorms and have the tools to make sure they don't do so you can leave the weather worries to them.
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JBI
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by JBI »

As a Q400 pilot myself (not for Jazz) I have very high confident in the aircraft and the crews at Jazz. Would happily fly on the aircraft. As ahramin stated, it is significantly safer than driving.

I will note that in a 'smaller' turboprop aircraft, there are slightly more noises and bumps than in a larger airliner. This is completely normal. You'll hear the engines changing their power settings (from take off power, to climb power to cruise power). Because the landing gear is long (comes out of the engine nacelles which are high up), it sometimes seems the plane shakes a little bit on the take off roll more than a large airline - again this is completely normal. The last caveat I'll give is that often the Q400 lands very firmly. This again, is normal.

The above is not meant to scare you at all. Just make you aware that despite a bit more of the flying 'feeling' it is an incredibly safe airplane. I would have no qualms with bringing my family on board a Jazz Q400.
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Docbrad
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by Docbrad »

Have you considered that Jazz has the 5th most number of incidents because it in the top 5 largest airlines in Canada?

If you took your car out on the road once a year, the chances of having an accident are quite poor. If you drive 12 hours a day, every day, then yeah, things will happen.

I do not work for Jazz myself, but I know many people who do and have 100% faith in them when I step on board.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by CpnCrunch »

"Incidents" cover a pretty broad range of events. However there have been zero fatal accidents involving Jazz even though it is the third largest airline in Canada. From what I've seen as a passenger, the pilots are very well trained and don't push weather.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

As for Jazz, it has the highest paid regional airline pilots and mechanics in North America
Highest paid regional pilots in North America? Only if you don’t include the USA in your definition of North America :roll:
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Rowdy
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by Rowdy »

There are few operations at the airline level in Canada that I would not fully and wholly trust. I would say Jazz is at the top for professionalism, safety and maintenance standards. Jazz also has some of the higher experienced pilots in the regional world. Although I may be a bit biased as I work for them. Flying the Q400 no less.

The Q400 is a modern variant of the Dash 8 which has been in operation as a stalwart for decades. They are safe, reliable and efficient in there area of operation. PDX-YVR is a straightforward flight. Most days it is quite scenic as you fly up, over seattle and into the gulf islands and descend in to the vancouver area. Staying almost completely out of mountainous terrain enroute.


As others have mentioned, turbulence is a non issue. I wouldn't be too concerned about Thunderstorms here on the west coast either. Not only are the aircraft radar equipped and we have accurate weather reporting and forecasting, but the crews maintain a high vigilance for avoidance. We generally are able to fly around them on the coast as they are isolated in nature, unlike the ones found in the midwest and great lakes areas.

Hopefully this will all put your mind more at ease and you'll have a pleasant experience on your way to visit family. I'm sure they are looking forward to seeing you.
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by TSAM »

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mixturerich
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by mixturerich »

I like to tell people “smaller planes fly slower therefore they are safer”. Not necessarily a valid fact but it’s one way for a layman to look at it and feel better.

As for the Q400, it is a beast, if you lose an engine and don’t even touch the rudder it will still get a positive rate of climb in a full slip...in other words, heaps of power (DO use the rudder though, obviously).

Anyways, most of the time airplanes don’t kill people, pilots do. However, the personnel, training, airplanes, maintenance, procedures, and safety culture at Jazz are all top notch in the industry and as far as I know they have never ever had a fatal accident, so you are in VERY good hands. At the end of the day, it’s just an airplane, and there are thousands of other airline flights happening around the world all day every day. You’ll be fine.
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fish4life
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by fish4life »

I don’t fly for Jazz either but I’d happily sit in the back of a Jazz flight on a Q400 without concern, Air Georgian on the other hand...
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fliter
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by fliter »

Jazz is an excellent airline and Q400 is a very capable airplane. They call it "a turboprop that thinks it's a jet" for a reason - it's got a lot of power and that can get you out of a lot of trouble. It's a very modern aircraft with the latest navigation equipment, weather radar for avoiding thunderstorms, multiple alerting systems to make sure pilots aren't doing anything that might endanger the plane, and multiple back-ups for every system.

AFAIK, there have been only two fatal incidents with a Q400 (not counting the Horizon Air incident where an aircraft was stolen and deliberately crashed - no one on board except for the guy who stole it), and both were the result of pilot error, likely due to things like fatigue and/or poor training. Jazz has an outstanding training program and a great safety record, so there is nothing to worry about on that front.

As for "incidents", that can cover a lot of things, including really minor stuff. They are logged and analyzed to monitor trends and to learn from to make flying even safer, but they are not particularly a cause for concern.

You might feel turbulence in flight. This is normal. When we get into turbulence it's more annoying for us than anything else, and we just want to make sure everyone is wearing a seatbelt and doesn't hit their head on the ceiling or something like that. But turbulence really doesn't do anything bad to the airplane. It's a total non-issue. We try to avoid it when we can just for the comfort of the passengers and the flight attendants, but if we can't, we just can't and it's not a big deal. It's like driving on a really bumpy road - doesn't feel good but isn't dangerous at all.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes! And if you get nervous during the flight, just remember, there is a whole whack of us sending you good vibes and saying "Don't worry, jumpyberry, that little noise was nothing and the bumps are not a big deal. You'll be ok!" :)
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maxflight636
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by maxflight636 »

You certainly won't feel as "cozy", but as stated by the other contributors, these aircraft are quite safe and the flight crews are fantastic.
If you're ready to "overcome" your fear this is also a great way to get started as the aircraft won't bump around a whole lot, but it will still move enough for you to appreciate the degree of comfort and safety you can enjoy on an aircraft this size.

I won't bother you with "issue" statistics in terms of large aircraft vs small, but I would have full confidence in boarding a Q400.
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Hackmech
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by Hackmech »

mixturerich wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am I like to tell people “smaller planes fly slower therefore they are safer”. Not necessarily a valid fact but it’s one way for a layman to look at it and feel better.

As for the Q400, it is a beast, if you lose an engine and don’t even touch the rudder it will still get a positive rate of climb in a full slip...in other words, heaps of power (DO use the rudder though, obviously).

Anyways, most of the time airplanes don’t kill people, pilots do. However, the personnel, training, airplanes, maintenance, procedures, and safety culture at Jazz are all top notch in the industry and as far as I know they have never ever had a fatal accident, so you are in VERY good hands. At the end of the day, it’s just an airplane, and there are thousands of other airline flights happening around the world all day every day. You’ll be fine.
If you were trying to provide the Original Poster some reassurance and comfort , you did a terrible job. Don't open your reply with an engine failure situation. Secondly , don't add the fact that "airplanes don't kill people, pilots do". That's not what hes looking for at all.
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Hackmech
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by Hackmech »

The reason you are seeing alot of incident reports from Jazz to different sites and agencies is that Jazz reports everything and is very transparent. Its meant for data collection, reliability, tracking and over all safety driven improvments. Nothing at all to worry about when flying Jazz. I work there and will hop on our planes without a second thought. Good luck in your travels!!
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by KenoraPilot »

100% faith in the Q and the crews at Jazz. I would put my family on any Jazz operated DH8, Q400, CRJ.
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Re: Flying Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and Jazz Air / Air Canada Express for the first time

Post by Old fella »

KenoraPilot wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:04 am 100% faith in the Q and the crews at Jazz. I would put my family on any Jazz operated DH8, Q400, CRJ.
Kinda like ole Jazz myself, they say very little , an unassuming type of airline but they get you to where ya want to go with minimal fuss and distraction. As for the Q well to me tis just another airplane, more comfortable than ‘100/300 series but I prefer the CRJ especially the stretch one. Doing a couple of quick trips over and around YYZ during summer on the Jazz and no doubt will be as per their usual “shall get you there” scenario :)
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