New TC Cannabis rules

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Capt. Underpants
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by Capt. Underpants »

bcguy2004 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Although I could indulge in a whole medicine cabinet of substances and alcohol and still be legal to fly the next day.
You may want to read the regulations again.
101.01 (1) In these Regulations,

fit for duty, in respect of a person, means that their ability to act as a flight crew member of an aircraft is not impaired by fatigue, the consumption of alcohol or drugs or any mental or physical condition;
602.02 An operator of an aircraft shall not require any person to act as a flight crew member or to carry out a preflight duty, and a person shall not act as a flight crew member or carry out that duty, if the operator or the person has reason to believe that the person is not, or is not likely to be, fit for duty.

Alcohol or Drugs — Crew Members
602.03 No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft

(a) within 12 hours after consuming an alcoholic beverage;

(b) while under the influence of alcohol; or

(c) while using any drug that impairs the person’s faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way.
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Blowin' In The Wind
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by Blowin' In The Wind »

Capt. Literal
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by Capt. Underpants »

Whatever mate. :roll: It's all there in black and white.
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bcguy2004
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by bcguy2004 »

Capt. Underpants wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:52 am
Whatever mate. :roll: It's all there in black and white.
You missed my point but that’s ok.

It’s my understanding you can use Cocaine and a myriad of other banned drugs and it will be undetectable very shortly thereafter. Which is the joke about having such a hard line on cannabis, including CBD.

This is commonplace in the oil and gas industry. Many workers will indulge in hard drugs on their brief time off and still pass the piss test.
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by Capt. Underpants »

I didn’t miss anything. I was responding to a claim that one “could indulge in a whole medicine cabinet of substances and alcohol and still be legal to fly the next day.” The regulation “literally” says you can’t. The responsibility is on the individual and I get that some see this as inadequate, but since random drug and alcohol testing has been frowned upon by Canada’s courts, there’s little else the regulator or an operator can do until a higher level of suspicion is raised.
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indieadventurer
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by indieadventurer »

It was clear to me he was using hyperbole.
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OldInstructor
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by OldInstructor »

No one has mentioned ICAO, as a signatory we have international responsibilities. For Canadian pilot licenses to be accepted operating Canadian aircraft outside of Canada I suspect a very conservative policy was required.
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RatherBeFlying
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by RatherBeFlying »

The published research on pilot, and driver, performance with cannabis is pretty sparse. As before mentioned, one paper determined that it takes a maximum of 28 days for cannabis metabolites to leave your system. Lower initial dose and BMI may result in a shorter THC elimination time. Minister Garneau used this to require an abstention period of 28 days.

A UK study of accident involved drivers showed a correlation of significant increased risk with higher levels of blood THC, but not with a lower level. This indicates that there is likely a non zero blood THC level that is not impairing, as is accepted for alcohol in drivers.

Some decades old simulator studies showed impaired performance 24 hours after consuming an entire joint, supplied from a US government source. Missing are results for 48, 72, 96 hours. I suspect that normal piloting performance would be restored in a fraction of 28 days.

Where alcohol is concerned, there is a substantial body of peer reviewed science describing:

1: impairment correlated to blood levels

2: time it takes for alcohol levels to be eliminated.

So far nothing anywhere near for cannabis.

The problem is that an unknown number of pilots who have been long term consumers of cannabis are performing their own secret trials. This number may increase now that cannabis is legal.

Far better would be studies of pilot performance over several days after partaking in a joint passed around.
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losercruiser
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by losercruiser »

As expected, it will take time before the studies are done and we know more about impairment. 28 days is likely not the final outcome, it will be much less. But until we have the data, they are being extra conservative with the rules.

I expect within 10 years we'll be down to an hours/days limit.

And I also expect as the testing systems are improved, CBD will be unrestricted. As it should be.
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2R
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by 2R »

Better shave your head if they start hair tests as those tests show everything , the keratin quality can accurately assess you sexual activity as well . They can even tell if you are an onanist without looking at the hair on the palms of your hands ;)
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L39Guy
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by L39Guy »

RatherBeFlying wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:16 pm
Some decades old simulator studies showed impaired performance 24 hours after consuming an entire joint, supplied from a US government source. Missing are results for 48, 72, 96 hours. I suspect that normal piloting performance would be restored in a fraction of 28 days.
The issue is the THC residing in fat cells for up to 28 days then being released during periods of stress, just when you do not want to be getting high.
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AZ382
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by AZ382 »

What you are referring to is 11-nor-9-carboxy-Δ⁹-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC-COOH). This is a non psychoactive metabolite that is lipid soluble. When stressed your body does not turn this back into the psychoactive THC which got you high in the first place. The THC-COOH is what drug testing looks for solely because it stays in your system longer than the THC which is broken down much quicker. It gives confirmation of past use, not impairment.
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Heliian
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by Heliian »

AZ382 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:23 am
What you are referring to is 11-nor-9-carboxy-Δ⁹-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC-COOH). This is a non psychoactive metabolite that is lipid soluble. When stressed your body does not turn this back into the psychoactive THC which got you high in the first place. The THC-COOH is what drug testing looks for solely because it stays in your system longer than the THC which is broken down much quicker. It gives confirmation of past use, not impairment.
Get out of here with your factual information. This post is about fear and pitchforks, we need demons to focus our rage on so we don't look inward at our own misgivings.

It's been over a year now since Canadian legalization with no adverse effects.
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stillflying
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Re: New TC Cannabis rules

Post by stillflying »

It sucks. We can't smoke weed. But at the end of the day, for 99% of us, it's not worth pushing it. You career is worth significantly more than getting high. If you really hate life and want to drown your sorrows, you can always drink. If that's not enough, you might as well go for coke and whatever else people are doing today.
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