Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

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airway
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by airway » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Rowdy wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:01 pm

Except they're handcuffed to Jazz for FIVE years! If they dont cut and run for an overseas gig..

I'm sure this will solidify the requirement for DEC.
There is nothing on the CAE website about a bond or contract for 5 years.
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by North Shore » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:35 pm

Hmm, Seneca, hey?

So an RJ or Q will be the first plane that the actually retract the gear on?! And what happens when they get a xwind greater than 10 knots?
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Rowdy
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by Rowdy » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:45 pm

airway wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:22 pm
Rowdy wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:01 pm

Except they're handcuffed to Jazz for FIVE years! If they dont cut and run for an overseas gig..

I'm sure this will solidify the requirement for DEC.
There is nothing on the CAE website about a bond or contract for 5 years.

My Correction, CAE and Jazz have signed the partnership for 5 years.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:02 pm

North Shore wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:35 pm
Hmm, Seneca, hey?

So an RJ or Q will be the first plane that the actually retract the gear on?! And what happens when they get a xwind greater than 10 knots?
The captain flies...captain will be doing a lot of the flying.
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FICU
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by FICU » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:41 pm

Diploma or degree plus $130k means it’s a rich kid cadet program.
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lownslow
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by lownslow » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:41 pm

Can they at least include a semester-long ramp internship in Deerfart Manitoba or something?
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OldTracker
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by OldTracker » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:57 pm

But..."Minimum Education: Post-secondary degree, diploma or equivalent."
So no good for kids right out of high school.
https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/beco ... z-approach
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GhostRider6
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by GhostRider6 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:19 pm

lownslow wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:41 pm
Can they at least include a semester-long ramp internship in Deerfart Manitoba or something?

This is 100 % on point 😂
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by jakeandelwood » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:12 am

Has anyone ever heard of an electrician or plumber who has had to pay that kind of money to get their first job right out of trade school? I just wondered. You might say they don't make as much as a pilot but actually they probably make more.
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Johnny767
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by Johnny767 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:48 am

Like a lot of things, this could have been a great program. Instead they completely missed the mark.

Drop the waste of money RJ Type Rating and remove the requirement for previous degree/diploma. 100k for all the Licences and a 18 month course and you have a winner.

Oh.....that's what MRC, Selkirk and the original Seneca program has done for decades.

Cash grab by Seneca, as there four year program will grind to a halt.
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GoinVertical
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by GoinVertical » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:18 am

Doesn't MFC do the integrated ATPL and diploma for like 70k?
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by C-GGGQ » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:57 am

GoinVertical wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:18 am
Doesn't MFC do the integrated ATPL and diploma for like 70k?
Yup two different degrees offered through Mount Allison University.
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captainhack
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by captainhack » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:06 pm

Honestly, @#$! this program. This program is made for rich kids with parents who have deep wallets. CaptainKirk, states that he worked 2 jobs as an immigrant to afford flight training. I have done the exact same thing and that's why I am qualified to comment on this. I am an immigrant and I don't have mommy and daddy who can afford to pay for my training. Where CaptainKirk is wrong is "go get additional loans for the 126k". When you are working 2 jobs at $20/hours for 60 hours a week to afford flight training, banks will laugh at the thought of even asking for $126k (plus applicable taxes) in a line of credit. In fact, banks have straight up told me they cannot give me at me $50k for flight training (and at that time I had no loans and an amazing credit score and was making about $17/hour for 44 hours a week). This program is just a way for rich kids to buy their spot on the right seat and for Jazz to have a source of cheap labour. These kinds of programs undermine the effort that many people like myself have put in to rightfully earn a position as a first officer, and they should go away.
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captainhack
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by captainhack » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:14 pm

GoinVertical wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:18 am
Doesn't MFC do the integrated ATPL and diploma for like 70k?
Some places do PPL, CPL, Group 1 for $50k in 18 months. That RJ type rating must be one hell of a type rating for $70k.
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by ReserveTank » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:16 am

captainhack wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:06 pm
Honestly, @#$! this program. This program is made for rich kids with parents who have deep wallets. CaptainKirk, states that he worked 2 jobs as an immigrant to afford flight training. I have done the exact same thing and that's why I am qualified to comment on this. I am an immigrant and I don't have mommy and daddy who can afford to pay for my training. Where CaptainKirk is wrong is "go get additional loans for the 126k". When you are working 2 jobs at $20/hours for 60 hours a week to afford flight training, banks will laugh at the thought of even asking for $126k (plus applicable taxes) in a line of credit. In fact, banks have straight up told me they cannot give me at me $50k for flight training (and at that time I had no loans and an amazing credit score and was making about $17/hour for 44 hours a week). This program is just a way for rich kids to buy their spot on the right seat and for Jazz to have a source of cheap labour. These kinds of programs undermine the effort that many people like myself have put in to rightfully earn a position as a first officer, and they should go away.
Welcome to European-style pay-to-fly. It's why the world needs MCAS.
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Re: Jazz Approach

Post by pianokeys » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:35 am

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:49 pm
Bro,
Dont bro me if you dont know me, Chad.
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by pianokeys » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:42 am

The real question is, imagine the interest on this loan?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 am

Mommy and Daddy buy them a job at Jazz. I can't wait to see the spoiled attitude these "jet trained" kids bring to the old Q400 captains at Jazz (who probably have 5000+ hrs on the CRJ).

CRM disaster
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sullecpt
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by sullecpt » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:12 am

This new pay to fly scheme is very concerning to me.

Why do they need pilots who already have a degree to spend $126k on this training. Most people I know with undergrads already have least $30-50k of debt. Add that all together and your looking at close to $200k of debt starting off life as a regional pilot. This is insane! The amount of interest you'd pay vs all the years building enough time to upgrade makes this a terrible financial decision. For the average Joe this would probably result in financial ruin. If I was running the show and knew the pilot I was hiring spent $126-200k on the same job I paid $40k for I'd probably question their decision making skills.

Type rating? Why? Seneca kids already had access to a CRJ sim for CRM training, why do they need a type rating? I see here people saying they might get them to switch to the Q or classic on initial hire...doesn't seem likely to me. I'd say the union reps have something to think about here. It seems this is where all the future RJ hires will come from. It would lead one to believe it's a full on pay to fly scheme now.

Pay to fly is already big in other parts of the world. Jazz has now lowered the bar to that level. They've realized you don't need to lose money when you can make money off of new hires. This WILL become the new norm unless people make some noise about it.

Think of all the other airlines in this country who appear to be strapped for cash. Oh you want to work at EVAS, $15k for a type rating! Oh you want to work for Sunwing? They will soon realize they don't need temporary foreign workers when they advertise jobs that require 737 typed pilots and people apply!

It's a race to the bottom. This has set a really dangerous financial precident for all of us. Can't wait to see them claim they can't find pilots when they all have type ratings attached to the requirements. Then they will really have leverage to bring in rates pilots from abroad too.

This is not good. Everyone should be concerned in my opinion.
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by aloysius » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:47 am

I'm in my early 30s and graduated university directly into the 2008/2009 financial crisis. So I'm not a kid with parents to buy them a job and have never taken any job I've had for granted. I'm a career changer who decided a few months ago to get into aviation as a career and feel that this would be a good opportunity for me to get into the industry without having to move up north and be away from my wife.

I will definitely be applying for this but I have a question. I'm currently preparing for my PPL flight test. Should I delay my flight test until I receive a decision from this program?
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by ReserveTank » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:20 am

I went down south, never paid for a type, got paid big bonuses, and make incentive money. Not everyone can do it (rights to work in the US), but some can. It's worth it if you can.
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by pianokeys » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:25 am

sullecpt wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:12 am
Pay to fly is already big in other parts of the world. Jazz has now lowered the bar to that level. They've realized you don't need to lose money when you can make money off of new hires. This WILL become the new norm unless people make some noise about it.

It's a race to the bottom.
I think Jazz is one of the first major airlines in North America to do this nonsense?
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vermont
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by vermont » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:16 am

pianokeys wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:25 am
sullecpt wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:12 am
Pay to fly is already big in other parts of the world. Jazz has now lowered the bar to that level. They've realized you don't need to lose money when you can make money off of new hires. This WILL become the new norm unless people make some noise about it.

It's a race to the bottom.
I think Jazz is one of the first major airlines in North America to do this nonsense?
Why is Canada a world leader in bad things
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GhostRider6
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by GhostRider6 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:52 am

Makes these guys look good... ( which is saying something)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LBYr5WrTZL0

Minus the less than cute faces and bizarre pseudo tribal music..
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PilotZum
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Re: Jazz to launch pay for type rating program

Post by PilotZum » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:14 pm

That's a crazy amount of money!

I finished all my training in 2016 including the instructor rating and I paid like 55~60k, who in their right mind would spend 120k+ to do the same? :rolleyes:

If you don't wanna move up north go get your instructor rating and do that until you get 1500Hrs and Jazz will take ya!
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