The best article I have read recently about how corporatism did more to take Boeing to the bad place they are now, far more than than any single design decision on any single aircraft.
So far this has cost Boeing 9 billion and counting, I hope it ends much much higher. The only way greedy bean counters learn is when they are in jail. Even when they are financially ruined, they often just declare bankruptcy, start up another corporation and do it all over again. Look at Donald Trump.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:18 am
So far this has cost Boeing 9 billion and counting, I hope it ends much much higher. The only way greedy bean counters learn is when they are in jail. Even when they are financially ruined, they often just declare bankruptcy, start up another corporation and do it all over again. Look at Donald Trump.
Where did you get that it has cost 9 billion? Source? Stock has remained relatively stable - considering. Very few order cancellations. Thousands of MAXs on order. Stock jumped at the Boeing suggestion the grounding will be lifted soon indicates that stock will go through the roof when the grounding is lifted. The stock is up over 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and 24 month comparisons.
I am certainly not condoning how this all played out but $9 billion on a $207 billion market cap company?
Business is business is business that's how the world works, everything is business and bottom line is always driving it. What do people think about wars. Stop away all the bullshit and it's all about money hence business. Why is every pointing fingers at Boeing. It's just a fact of life. Litigation is all factored into the bottom line and the spin doctors work their magic.
complexintentions wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:02 am
The best article I have read recently about how corporatism did more to take Boeing to the bad place they are now, far more than than any single design decision on any single aircraft.
Are you suggesting Donald Trump should be in jail?
What specific crime would you indite him for?
I think he's talking about his failed business ventures and multiple bankruptcies that have leveraged his "fortune". Once he's done with the presidency I'm sure he'll just go back to those old ways.
Are you suggesting Donald Trump should be in jail?
What specific crime would you indite him for?
ok, I'll take a stab at it.
Extortion by officers or employees of the United States
Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,” punishable by a year in prison.
Coercion of political activity. The sentence caps at three years.
Place of solicitation,” and 52 U.S. Code § 30121,
Contributions and donations by foreign nationals. That’s another three years.
Sexual Assault
This link details everything chronologically. Everything from Sexual Assault to Corruption.
I was referring to the multiple bankruptcies of Trump operated companies. One company goes broke just start up another. Meanwhile keeping the fortune he paid himself. Going bankrupt doesn't qualify for jail, but shouldn't be able to just repeat. Screwing over creditors, employees, customers, suppliers, etc. And yeah, there's also all the other stuff going on too.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:18 am
So far this has cost Boeing 9 billion and counting, I hope it ends much much higher. The only way greedy bean counters learn is when they are in jail. Even when they are financially ruined, they often just declare bankruptcy, start up another corporation and do it all over again. Look at Donald Trump.
Where did you get that it has cost 9 billion? Source? Stock has remained relatively stable - considering. Very few order cancellations. Thousands of MAXs on order. Stock jumped at the Boeing suggestion the grounding will be lifted soon indicates that stock will go through the roof when the grounding is lifted. The stock is up over 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and 24 month comparisons.
I am certainly not condoning how this all played out but $9 billion on a $207 billion market cap company?
Boeing's corporate structure and culture is no different from any other today. The problem that these toolboxes have is that their profits are delicately interwoven with safety and human life. It makes for quite an interesting check measure, but even more interesting is that it could be so blatantly disregarded. This isn't new. Google Ford Pinto recall.
I'm just glad they're getting the exposure that they deserve, but I doubt it'll make a difference. All we're going to get out of this is a fixed Max and maybe a few systemic changes until the pendulum swings back. Pessimistic I know.... I'm usually a happy guy!!
Where did you get that it has cost 9 billion? Source? Stock has remained relatively stable - considering. Very few order cancellations. Thousands of MAXs on order. Stock jumped at the Boeing suggestion the grounding will be lifted soon indicates that stock will go through the roof when the grounding is lifted. The stock is up over 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and 24 month comparisons.
I am certainly not condoning how this all played out but $9 billion on a $207 billion market cap company?
It has cost them $9 Billion so far....of course - as with all business - it's not immediate. Its all buried in charges and loss over time.
In the second quarter - Boeing took a $5.7 Billion charge for future compensation to the airlines. There is also $100 million for victims families, $1.7 Billion (over the life of the program) in lost revenue and production slowdowns, almost a Billion for redesign and other costs of the groundings...
Where did you get that it has cost 9 billion? Source? Stock has remained relatively stable - considering. Very few order cancellations. Thousands of MAXs on order. Stock jumped at the Boeing suggestion the grounding will be lifted soon indicates that stock will go through the roof when the grounding is lifted. The stock is up over 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and 24 month comparisons.
I am certainly not condoning how this all played out but $9 billion on a $207 billion market cap company?
It has cost them $9 Billion so far....of course - as with all business - it's not immediate. Its all buried in charges and loss over time.
In the second quarter - Boeing took a $5.7 Billion charge for future compensation to the airlines. There is also $100 million for victims families, $1.7 Billion (over the life of the program) in lost revenue and production slowdowns, almost a Billion for redesign and other costs of the groundings...
Thanks for that. I imagine once the grounding is lifted these losses will be offset by the rise in stock prices and resumption of deliveries.
I doubt it.
Overall - losses will probably go up.
Most of it will be impossible to recover - and what little you may recover - will be lost as I'm sure the victims compensation will go up. The 5.7 Billion to the airlines was calculated back in July - that will certainly go up as well (It's estimated that each Max is costing AA $50,000 a day to sit on the ground. They are using that number to calculate losses for the airlines).
Also the cost of any litigation, and the numerous new lawsuits to follow (such as the Southwest pilots) has not been factored in. Add in lost sales to Airbus and the years of sales and service to those airlines and aircraft. The list goes on and on......
Airlines also have much more bargaining capital and can apply more pressure when negotiating airplane prices. Boeing will be selling 737s at cost for a while.
