Operating different machines.

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by goingnowherefast »

Crash a truck into a coach bus and kill 50 people.

Crash a regional airliner into a coach bus and kill 50+78=128 people.

Ignoring this dick measuring contest about which is harder, the pilot is responsible for more lives. More responsibility means more money. At least it should.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. »

Ignoring this dick measuring contest about which is harder, the pilot is responsible for more lives. More responsibility means more money. At least it should.
So a cruise ship Captain should be paid about ten times more than an airline captain?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by goingnowherefast »

Considering they keep smashing them into rocks to "show off", I'd wager yes! They gotta attract more safety concious captains.
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C-GGGQ
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C-GGGQ »

Meatservo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:58 pm BALLS, GGGQ. You are cherry-picking just as outrageously as anyone else. Weight limits? Load restrictions? Road atlas? 75 foot vehicle? Hazmat? Load security? Winter ops? Fatigue? Dunnage?

Come on. I was talking about "differences", not "Things That Are Exactly The Same".

So what if you don't know any astro stuff. Your ignorance of your trade is your issue, not mine.
Not cherry picking. That's literally every trip in a truck. a standard tractor trailer is a 53' "Van" and a tractor roughly 20 ft long. In Canada the weight limits are 39,500 kgs with 5,500 allowed on your steering axles, and 17.000 on your drives and trailers. In the US it's 80,000lbs with 12.000 34,000 and 34,000. If you're unbalanced you will need to slide the trailer axles. Unlike in most 703's load security is not a suggestion. Bars, straps, chains and other equipment is all rated for a specific weight and has very strict rules on how to secure the load. Transport trucks are only allowed on certain routes. Whether because of low clearances, weight limits, local bylaws, etc. There's literally a separate book for those and new maps every spring for spring. road restrictions. Hours of service are based on the country you are currently IN and if you are crossing a border you better make sure you're legal when you swap sides. In Canada you can drive 13 hrs and be on duty for a total of 14 hours in a 16 hour window. To achieve this you need 8 consecutive hours off duty with 2 more hours throughout the day in breaks no less than 30 minutes each. You can be on duty a total of 70 hrs in a rolling 7 day period but must have 1 day off in the preceeding 14 days. To reset your hours is a consecutive rest of 36 hrs. In the US you can drive 11 hours in a 14 hour window. You need 10 consecutive hrs off to start a new day. You must take a 30 minute break within 8 hours of starting your day and then the 8 hr clock resets. You can drive 70 hrs in 8 days rolling period and require 34 consecutive hrs to reset. No provision for a day off in 14. US drivers technically never NEED a day off.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by goingnowherefast »

I wish pilots had those rest rules!
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by valleyboy »

So a cruise ship Captain should be paid about ten times more than an airline captain?
You mean they don't? :mrgreen:
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood »

iflyforpie wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:25 pm
jakeandelwood wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:53 am Many truck driving jobs are more than just driving the truck, just wrapping your head around double clutching an 18 speed can be hard enough for new drivers. The other half of the job starts when you get to your destination if it's a specialty truck. More learning, it's not just driving the truck.
Lots of modern trucks have synchronized gearboxes and don’t even need the clutch to shift after you’ve let off the throttle. The clutch is only for stopping and starting. Sure single or double clutching is easier on synchros, but harder on a throw out bearing.

I’d say the specialty part occurs in aviation, too. Not everything flown is SLF in and out of a terminal.

I think the toughest thing about trucking would be the fatigue. The autopilot is a definite reprieve. Trucking companies seem to be looking for dream teams—ideally a husband and wife (or whatever goes these days) who will have a romanticized experience of seeing the country side for free... but realities being they’ll be driving on opposite sides of the clock while someone sleeps in the back to make money for the man or amortize their lease or purchase as owner/operators.
I've never seen a truck (I mean a real truck not some Cummins diesel Dodge 1 ton) with a synchronized transmission in the 10 years I've been driving. You have to learn double clutching along with proper gearing down to pass your road test, in B.C. anyway. When I 1st got into driving I had a cocky attitude, I figured if I can fly a plane then a truck will be so easy, not so much.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by iflyforpie »

So why didn’t I need to use the clutch driving my brother in laws Peterbilt with an 18 speed? He said I didn’t even need to single clutch.

Besides. Double clutching isn’t exactly rocket science. Especially on something with such narrow gears and a limited rev range.
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simplicity
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by simplicity »

I was smoothly shifting gears by the end of the first lesson. It's not hard.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood »

Meatservo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm Cat Driver, I want to start by apologizing for my comment about the hollowed-out watermelon. I was drinking after work (flying planes) and it seemed like a funny comment to make at the time.

I've been thinking about your question, and I believe the truth can be found by breaking things down into discrete actions that are representative of the various tasks at hand. In order to be completely objective of course one has to account for what particular oeuvre one is talking about, so I'll try to be clear as to which vintage of machine or time in history I'm referencing.

1: "Getting there"

PLANE: finding heading by referencing the nautical almanac to find the greenwich hour angle of Aries, converting to local hour angle (presuming you've been careful and you know your longitude), using the chart to correct for sidereal hour angle to find local hour angle of the star you've managed to spot, using astrocompass to sight the star and then set your gyro, mark that on the chart and continue dead-reckoning until you pick up the beacon more or less where you were hoping it would be

TRUCK: Stay on right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

2: "Docking"

PLANE: sail an Otter in floats into its spot between two other Otters on a busy dock in gusty wind with no swamper

TRUCK: Back your trailer into the loading port on the side of Wal-Mart "

WHICH IS HARDER: DRAW


3:"STEERING"

PLANE: Co-ordinate roll, pitch and yaw to maintain altitude, speed and course using instruments without being able to see out the window

TRUCK: Stay in right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

4: "NOT PLOUGHING INTO STUFF"

PLANE: flying through the air

TRUCK: rolling along the ground

WHICH IS HARDER: TRUCK

5: "Mental Math"

PLANE: magnetic variation, zulu time, descent angle, depressurization rates, rate of turn, VHF reception distance, available hold times, cold weather corrections, holdover times, tide charts

TRUCK: what time the all-night Denny's closes

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

6) "Staying Fit"

PLANE: technical exam every year, performance test including emergency scenarios requiring memorized procedures every six months

TRUCK: Whatever.

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

7) "Parking"

PLANE: Beach, Esker, Field, Rocks, River, Snow, Slush, Tundra...

TRUCK: WAL-Mart

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE



Now I could be a dick and go on and on and on, but I truly believe that truck-driving is honourable, honest work and I wouldn't normally denigrate it like Cat Driver constantly does by comparing it to aeroplane flying. I also believe that modern 705 copilots are dissipated, whiney, underachieving, pampered little pricks who would be too timorous to even attempt driving anything with a manual transmission, let alone without an FMS and autopilot. So, I'm not actually sure where I stand on this issue.
" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
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simplicity
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by simplicity »

jakeandelwood wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:35 pm
Meatservo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm Cat Driver, I want to start by apologizing for my comment about the hollowed-out watermelon. I was drinking after work (flying planes) and it seemed like a funny comment to make at the time.

I've been thinking about your question, and I believe the truth can be found by breaking things down into discrete actions that are representative of the various tasks at hand. In order to be completely objective of course one has to account for what particular oeuvre one is talking about, so I'll try to be clear as to which vintage of machine or time in history I'm referencing.

1: "Getting there"

PLANE: finding heading by referencing the nautical almanac to find the greenwich hour angle of Aries, converting to local hour angle (presuming you've been careful and you know your longitude), using the chart to correct for sidereal hour angle to find local hour angle of the star you've managed to spot, using astrocompass to sight the star and then set your gyro, mark that on the chart and continue dead-reckoning until you pick up the beacon more or less where you were hoping it would be

TRUCK: Stay on right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

2: "Docking"

PLANE: sail an Otter in floats into its spot between two other Otters on a busy dock in gusty wind with no swamper

TRUCK: Back your trailer into the loading port on the side of Wal-Mart "

WHICH IS HARDER: DRAW


3:"STEERING"

PLANE: Co-ordinate roll, pitch and yaw to maintain altitude, speed and course using instruments without being able to see out the window

TRUCK: Stay in right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

4: "NOT PLOUGHING INTO STUFF"

PLANE: flying through the air

TRUCK: rolling along the ground

WHICH IS HARDER: TRUCK

5: "Mental Math"

PLANE: magnetic variation, zulu time, descent angle, depressurization rates, rate of turn, VHF reception distance, available hold times, cold weather corrections, holdover times, tide charts

TRUCK: what time the all-night Denny's closes

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

6) "Staying Fit"

PLANE: technical exam every year, performance test including emergency scenarios requiring memorized procedures every six months

TRUCK: Whatever.

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

7) "Parking"

PLANE: Beach, Esker, Field, Rocks, River, Snow, Slush, Tundra...

TRUCK: WAL-Mart

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE



Now I could be a dick and go on and on and on, but I truly believe that truck-driving is honourable, honest work and I wouldn't normally denigrate it like Cat Driver constantly does by comparing it to aeroplane flying. I also believe that modern 705 copilots are dissipated, whiney, underachieving, pampered little pricks who would be too timorous to even attempt driving anything with a manual transmission, let alone without an FMS and autopilot. So, I'm not actually sure where I stand on this issue.
" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
Want an award?

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.

Nothing you say can make me think driving truck is harder than flying. What so ever.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by Zaibatsu »

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digits_
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ »

What about Zambonis? Imagine being a Zamboni driver. The pressure is always on. If you are late, thousands of people have to wait for you. A multi million dollar industry depends on YOUR skills to create top qualiy smooth surfaces.

They are obviously highly trained professionals, as there are rarely any fatal accidents. They drive on conditions you wouldn't dream of putting any other vehicle on!

CRFI limitations? Not for these bad boys, they just GO! Duty day limitations? Wouldn't dream of it! How many people start out as novice Zamboni drivers and make it to the NHL? Not a lot. More exclusive than AC I would say.

I heard some are pilots during their off season.

A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. »

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.
Did you fly for Austin Airways?
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trey kule
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by trey kule »

Digits, old boy, Your post of the operator was very good and clever.
I didn’t even know they had Zambonis on the island.

But I am afraid that your target audience might have missed the analogy.

Maybe when he gets his Zamboni built, he will renew his medical and instructor rating,
Shouldn’t be much over 90 by then, but still at the top of his game.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ »

trey kule wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:38 am Digits, old boy, Your post of the operator was very good and clever.
I didn’t even know they had Zambonis on the island.

But I am afraid that your target audience might have missed the analogy.

Maybe when he gets his Zamboni built, he will renew his medical and instructor rating,
Shouldn’t be much over 90 by then, but still at the top of his game.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.


:smt031
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. »

A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
Well digits at least your friend seems to have accomplished something more tangible than being an internet troll making snide remarks every chance he / she gets.

If you are so accomplished as a pilot why not share some of your flying experiences with us? :?
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ »

C.W.E. wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:49 am
A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
Well digits at least your friend seems to have accomplished something more tangible than being an internet troll making snide remarks every chance he / she gets.

If you are so accomplished as a pilot why not share some of your flying experiences with us? :?
See that's the part you often overlook: you can post on avcanada and share information without claiming you are an accomplished pilot.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. »

See that's the part you often overlook: you can post on avcanada and share information without claiming you are an accomplished pilot.
Fair enough digits, rather than post negative comments about others why don't you post some stories of flying experiences you were incompetent in if you can't think of any flying you did that was an accomplishment.

That is assuming you are a pilot.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood »

simplicity wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm
jakeandelwood wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:35 pm
Meatservo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm Cat Driver, I want to start by apologizing for my comment about the hollowed-out watermelon. I was drinking after work (flying planes) and it seemed like a funny comment to make at the time.

I've been thinking about your question, and I believe the truth can be found by breaking things down into discrete actions that are representative of the various tasks at hand. In order to be completely objective of course one has to account for what particular oeuvre one is talking about, so I'll try to be clear as to which vintage of machine or time in history I'm referencing.

1: "Getting there"

PLANE: finding heading by referencing the nautical almanac to find the greenwich hour angle of Aries, converting to local hour angle (presuming you've been careful and you know your longitude), using the chart to correct for sidereal hour angle to find local hour angle of the star you've managed to spot, using astrocompass to sight the star and then set your gyro, mark that on the chart and continue dead-reckoning until you pick up the beacon more or less where you were hoping it would be

TRUCK: Stay on right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

2: "Docking"

PLANE: sail an Otter in floats into its spot between two other Otters on a busy dock in gusty wind with no swamper

TRUCK: Back your trailer into the loading port on the side of Wal-Mart "

WHICH IS HARDER: DRAW


3:"STEERING"

PLANE: Co-ordinate roll, pitch and yaw to maintain altitude, speed and course using instruments without being able to see out the window

TRUCK: Stay in right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

4: "NOT PLOUGHING INTO STUFF"

PLANE: flying through the air

TRUCK: rolling along the ground

WHICH IS HARDER: TRUCK

5: "Mental Math"

PLANE: magnetic variation, zulu time, descent angle, depressurization rates, rate of turn, VHF reception distance, available hold times, cold weather corrections, holdover times, tide charts

TRUCK: what time the all-night Denny's closes

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

6) "Staying Fit"

PLANE: technical exam every year, performance test including emergency scenarios requiring memorized procedures every six months

TRUCK: Whatever.

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

7) "Parking"

PLANE: Beach, Esker, Field, Rocks, River, Snow, Slush, Tundra...

TRUCK: WAL-Mart

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE



Now I could be a dick and go on and on and on, but I truly believe that truck-driving is honourable, honest work and I wouldn't normally denigrate it like Cat Driver constantly does by comparing it to aeroplane flying. I also believe that modern 705 copilots are dissipated, whiney, underachieving, pampered little pricks who would be too timorous to even attempt driving anything with a manual transmission, let alone without an FMS and autopilot. So, I'm not actually sure where I stand on this issue.
" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
Want an award?

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.

Nothing you say can make me think driving truck is harder than flying. What so ever.
No, I don't need no reward. I didn't say it was harder or more difficult. Have you worked in both professions for any length of time? Unless you have then you can hardly say anything about how hard it is. So you can land a plane in a 35 knot X wind on a short icy runway, maybe I can to, never done it though. Maybe you can jump into a truck and butter thru the gears while climbing a grade in a loaded truck, or maybe you'll tear the drive shaft out of it before you get out of low range, I don't know. Keep feeding your ego though, just repeat it over and over in your head, "nothing is harder than being a pilot"
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