Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
User avatar
oldtimer
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2295
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:04 pm
Location: Calgary

Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by oldtimer »

Many moons ago I received a private pilot license endorsed for single engine, land, with a maximum take-off weight of 4,000 pounds. Is this take-off weight still in effect for a new private pilot?
---------- ADS -----------
 
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8112
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Winterfell...

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by iflyforpie »

I believe it’s any non-high performance aircraft.

I don’t believe there’s anything legally preventing you from flying any under 12,566 lbs... and you can fly aircraft over it with a type rating and the appropriate ratings provided they are single pilot.

I could be wrong.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by PilotDAR »

I don’t believe there’s anything legally preventing you from flying any under 12,566 lbs
This is my understanding too. I'm sure a quick search of the CAR standards would provide a certain answer.

Interestingly, when my license was issued, it was the 4000 pound weight limit. I was thus type endorsed on the C310, and Aztec, as they exceeded 4000 pounds. My present license still has those endorsements, even though they are now meaningless, as those types no longer require a type endorsement on a PPL/CPL. Oh well... It's historically amusing.....
---------- ADS -----------
 
OldInstructor
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 10:20 pm

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by OldInstructor »

I believe that was dropped with the change to CARS. The privileges are found in 401. For the private pilot aeroplane they are:
Division VI — Private Pilot Licence

Aeroplanes — Privileges

401.26 The holder of a private pilot licence — aeroplane may act as

(a) pilot-in-command or co-pilot of an aeroplane of a class and type in respect of which the licence is endorsed with ratings;

(b) pilot-in-command of an ultra-light aeroplane; and

(c) pilot-in-command or co-pilot of any aircraft for the sole purpose of the holder’s flight training or flight test where

(i) in the case of flight training,

(A) it is conducted under the direction and supervision of a flight instructor qualified in accordance with section 425.21 of Standard 425 — Flight Training, and

(B) no passenger is carried on board, and

(ii) in the case of a flight test,

(A) it is conducted in accordance with section 401.15, and

(B) no passenger is carried on board.

Any two crew aircraft requires an endorsement and high performance single engine aircraft. They can be found in appendix A at 421.40 there is two different definitions for high performance. One used for certified aircraft and a second for amateur built .

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/transport-canad ... dix-a.html
---------- ADS -----------
 
7ECA
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by 7ECA »

OldInstructor wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:57 pm 401.26 The holder of a private pilot licence — aeroplane may act as...

(c) pilot-in-command or co-pilot of any aircraft for the sole purpose of the holder’s flight training or flight test...
This is no longer the case, and was changed in 2014 - although interestingly enough is not reflected in the CARs, as of yet.
(c) Who is pilot-in-command? The examiner will be the pilot-in-command (PIC), pursuant to CAR sections 401.03 and 401.19 – Student Pilot Permit - Privileges, as amended in 2014. In all cases, the examiner reserves the right to exercise all reasonable duty of care to ensure safe flight by intervening or taking control of an aircraft when any action or lack of action by the candidate seriously jeopardizes flight safety or if a breach of regulation is imminent.
(i) Pursuant to the Aeronautics Act: “pilot-in-command” means, in relation to an aircraft, the pilot having responsibility and authority for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time.


(ii) The responsibility and authority of an examiner, while conducting any flight test, is illustrated by the following non-exhaustive list. An examiner:

(A) determines the route of the aircraft;
(B) establishes the conditions for the takeoff and landing;
(C) directs the candidate when conducting air exercises;
(D) manipulates the flight and power controls at their own discretion when preparing for certain exercises;
(E) intervenes, when necessary and at any time, to ensure the safe continuation of the flight;
(F) makes decisions with respect to the continuation or termination of the flight.
(iii) If the examiner performs the duties listed in the short list above, the examiner is the Pilot- in-Command. In any case, the examiner, as the most qualified on board and may be held responsible for any negligence or for not exercising all reasonable duty of care as any other reasonable person in the same position would have exercised.
Taken from the 2019 PPL flight test guide. Also applies to the CPL, etc.

Apparently this change was made due to the perceived liability of examiners in the event of an "incident" occurring during a flight test. One has to wonder if any "incident(s)" have ever occurred during a flight test in Canada, or whether this was just another example of the lawyers getting involved...
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by PilotDAR »

One has to wonder if any "incident(s)" have ever occurred during a flight test in Canada,
Yes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
7ECA
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by 7ECA »

PilotDAR wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:30 pm Yes.
Memory is an odd thing isn't it, because shortly after posting I recalled the incident at Fort Langley where the Cherokee landed short of the then grass runway; on a flight test. Didn't end well for the Cherokee, and one can imagine that the buggering up of a landing in that manner would result in a buggered test as well.

In retrospect I'm sure there have been incidents and even accidents during flight tests, but, are these occurring frequently enough that a change to the regulations was required vis-a-vis the PIC during the test?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
HiFlyChick
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:27 am

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by HiFlyChick »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:38 pm Interestingly, when my license was issued, it was the 4000 pound weight limit. I was thus type endorsed on the C310, and Aztec, as they exceeded 4000 pounds. My present license still has those endorsements, even though they are now meaningless, as those types no longer require a type endorsement on a PPL/CPL. Oh well... It's historically amusing.....
Too bad they don't have the option of getting those on your license still. A few years back I was inquiring after a job in the Caribbean as single pilot on an Islander and they me to have a type endorsement for the BN2A on my license. They seemed quite puzzled when I explained that it didn't exist in Canada and that the best I could do was show them my PPC sign-off. I was just starting inquiries so I never got very far, but I wonder how many other countries do have a type endorsement for specific aircraft under 12,500 and how many different aircraft are included....
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by PilotDAR »

I am aware that in other countries, Caravan, King Air and Twin Otter are endorsed on the license, so obviously, they have other rules. It's not an entirely bad idea, just a lot of paperwork. On a helicopter license in Canada, every type is endorsed. When I got my PPLH, it came with the type I flew my flight test in, and I had to add after that.

I was thinking of your Islander this past week HiFly, as I was Caravan flight testing at an operator who has two of them, one was my pleasant lean against place in the hangar yesterday as we chatted. You might see me again in the east yet....
---------- ADS -----------
 
DadoBlade
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Max take-off weight for privat pilot licence

Post by DadoBlade »

Max Take-Off Weight (MTOW) for a Private Pilot? Weight should be proportionate to height, but I am thinking around 300 lbs/136 kg would be near max.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”