Swoop

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

DirtyDashDriver
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Swoop

Post by DirtyDashDriver »

Could this be that an FA turned around and said they would not fly with a sick passenger and the Captain's hands were tied and that's why no evaluation seemed to have been completed?

I've certainly been told in enough CRM classes that when someone decides to deny boarding, the Captain cannot override that decision. While it is always linked to the Interference with Crew Members', it is strongly hinted that it applies to all events.
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1858
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Swoop

Post by goingnowherefast »

Wouldn't the parents be aware of the child's health? Mild anxiety or excitement isn't unfit to fly as a pax.
---------- ADS -----------
 
North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5426
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: Swoop

Post by North Shore »

Braun wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:11 pm
North Shore wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:49 pm ^Perhaps/Probably. But you, and the flight crew didn't *know* that for sure. Safest for all involved is to keep them on the ground until the 'sickness' is sorted one way or another. Where SWOOP has dropped a deuce is in handling the fallout from that decision. A positive national advertising campaign would cost them into the $Millions - the cost of this Negative national advertising, what, $5k?
Wasn’t commenting on the crews decision. Only the previous posters comments as to why the parents even boarded on the first place.
Sorry, man; read it incorrectly.. :?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
200hr Wonder
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
Location: CYVR
Contact:

Re: Swoop

Post by 200hr Wonder »

DirtyDashDriver wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm Could this be that an FA turned around and said they would not fly with a sick passenger and the Captain's hands were tied and that's why no evaluation seemed to have been completed?

I've certainly been told in enough CRM classes that when someone decides to deny boarding, the Captain cannot override that decision. While it is always linked to the Interference with Crew Members', it is strongly hinted that it applies to all events.
I would suggest that this perhaps happened. However, as a Captain, I would want a few things first. First where is your PAX assessment form and have you called MedLink? If those two are completed and under the Dr. from MedLink's advice we deplane them fine. If the Dr. says go and FA STILL won't go that's when you have a heart to heart. As in "Are you a Dr.? Are you sure you want to push this situation when a Dr. has advised it is OK for the PAX to travel?" I would bet the FA would change their mind fast. Most of the FAs at Swoop are kids themselves!

As for the re-booking, what pisses me off is situations like this where if the family had bought cancellation insurance it would have been a non event. Call the insurance company, tell them look the kid was denied boarding due to vomiting. Great your in Canada? We recommend you go to the hospital, however that's your choice. Book new tickets, and a hotel for the night as required, send us the bill. END OF STORY. If you are taking a trip and spending a lot of money on tickets perhaps the insurance is worth it! As a kid on no less than two occasions my family had to cancel trips or come home early and has used travel insurance. Once my brother woke up with an ear infection the way early AM before departure, off to the ER and a no fly from the doctor. Once Mom and Dad had to come home early form a trip to attend to a family member. Both times full reimbursement for the lost vacation or early tickets. Don't go whinging to the media just because something does not go your way when you travel.

Was Swoop's customer service shite? Absolutely, but if you have tickets to a hockey game, and don't make it or leave after 2min because your kid is sick do you expect the Canucks or Leafs to give you ones to another game? No that seat has expired. Why should an airline? If you are not willing or able to pay the insurance don't whine if you don't make it! FYI the insurance would have cost them about $80 or less than 10% of the ticket price.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Cheers,

200hr Wonder
Gannet167
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:23 pm

Re: Swoop

Post by Gannet167 »

I wonder if this 10 yr old had any nausia before the flight.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5409910

I think a vomiting passenger is a red flag. Hamilton to Vancouver is a fairly long flight with some stretches, especially if you fly a southern route, where there isn't a lot of great airports to divert a 737 into with an emergency and have to deal with customs etc.

Stat MD etc of course should be consulted and as informed a decision as possible taken. I don't disagree with the decision to not allow her to fly. Probably a safe choice and considerate of the other people on board, and other crew who probably aren't fans of vomit or catching a norovirus and booking off for diarreah etc.

Swoop didn't need to kick the whole family off. They should've said the sick person has to go, mom or dad can accompany. Maybe fly later. Other family can keep flying. Not sure if they'd still chosen to stick together.

Had this kid gotten sick enroute, or died, we'd all be lighting the torches and gathering pitchforks to crucify the capt. "What was he thinking?! Allowing a sick passenger fly! He's responsible for her death. And all those other passengers stranded in Great Falls fighting with the one customs agent after downing all their special gummy bears. What an idiot! Whelp, there you go, that's Swoop for you!" etc. Etc.


But, honestly, as was pointed out, if you're flying with kids and there's a risk you can't, that's what insurance is for. They rolled the dice and lost. $100 in travel insurance looks like a great deal right now. Well worth getting tickets refunded, and possibly getting to YVR for holidays a day or so later.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1806
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: Swoop

Post by Heliian »

200hr Wonder wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:10 pm
DirtyDashDriver wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm Could this be that an FA turned around and said they would not fly with a sick passenger and the Captain's hands were tied and that's why no evaluation seemed to have been completed?

I've certainly been told in enough CRM classes that when someone decides to deny boarding, the Captain cannot override that decision. While it is always linked to the Interference with Crew Members', it is strongly hinted that it applies to all events.
I would suggest that this perhaps happened. However, as a Captain, I would want a few things first. First where is your PAX assessment form and have you called MedLink? If those two are completed and under the Dr. from MedLink's advice we deplane them fine. If the Dr. says go and FA STILL won't go that's when you have a heart to heart. As in "Are you a Dr.? Are you sure you want to push this situation when a Dr. has advised it is OK for the PAX to travel?" I would bet the FA would change their mind fast. Most of the FAs at Swoop are kids themselves!

As for the re-booking, what pisses me off is situations like this where if the family had bought cancellation insurance it would have been a non event. Call the insurance company, tell them look the kid was denied boarding due to vomiting. Great your in Canada? We recommend you go to the hospital, however that's your choice. Book new tickets, and a hotel for the night as required, send us the bill. END OF STORY. If you are taking a trip and spending a lot of money on tickets perhaps the insurance is worth it! As a kid on no less than two occasions my family had to cancel trips or come home early and has used travel insurance. Once my brother woke up with an ear infection the way early AM before departure, off to the ER and a no fly from the doctor. Once Mom and Dad had to come home early form a trip to attend to a family member. Both times full reimbursement for the lost vacation or early tickets. Don't go whinging to the media just because something does not go your way when you travel.

Was Swoop's customer service shite? Absolutely, but if you have tickets to a hockey game, and don't make it or leave after 2min because your kid is sick do you expect the Canucks or Leafs to give you ones to another game? No that seat has expired. Why should an airline? If you are not willing or able to pay the insurance don't whine if you don't make it! FYI the insurance would have cost them about $80 or less than 10% of the ticket price.
Hahaha, "insurance will just pay", funniest thing I've read today. That's not their business.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
YYZSaabGuy
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:32 am
Location: On glideslope.

Re: Swoop

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Heliian wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:18 am
Hahaha, "insurance will just pay", funniest thing I've read today. That's not their business.
Actually, my wife and I had to cancel a Caribbean vacation last year about a week before departure, for medical reasons. Fortunately, we had purchased travel insurance. The claims process was straightforward, the documentation requirements not unreasonable, and the claim was paid by the insurer, in full, within a couple of weeks, no questions asked. YMMV, of course.
---------- ADS -----------
 
TheStig
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: Swoop

Post by TheStig »

200hr Wonder wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:10 pm
Was Swoop's customer service shite? Absolutely, but if you have tickets to a hockey game, and don't make it or leave after 2min because your kid is sick do you expect the Canucks or Leafs to give you ones to another game? No that seat has expired. Why should an airline?
I don't agree with this analogy. I'm in the business of flying people to where they've paid my salary to take them. The crew didn't fail here, the airline did. Instances where passengers are denied boarding or deplaned are rare but I would like to think that once they've been removed from flight that my airline would attempt to accommodate them as best as possible within reason. Westjet was the gold standard for this in the first 10 years they were in business. This family has every right to feel ripped off, but maybe if Gregg could explain the business case for protecting the bottom of the market to them and they would understand why.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Swoop

Post by rookiepilot »

Why was the entire family removed from the flight?
---------- ADS -----------
 
cjet
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:26 pm
Location: yyc

Re: Swoop

Post by cjet »

In my experience at WJ if any pax has vomited on A/C before departure and Medlink has been called pax will be denied boarding. Captain has no choice but to listen to Medlink’s decision.

CJet
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”