Time is of the essence

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Slammerdoon
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Time is of the essence

Post by Slammerdoon »

Can anyone who has some legal knowledge explain what - Time is of the essence - means in a Pilot bond.

My understanding is that it basically means as soon as able.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by Eric Janson »

People on this Forum are Primarily involved in Aviation.

You might have more luck asking your question on a Legal Forum or talking directly with someone who specialises in Employment Laws.
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digits_
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by digits_ »

Some google fu:

"Time is of the Essence. A phrase in a contract that means that performance by one party at or within the period specified in the contract is necessary to enable that party to require performance by the other party. Failure to act within the time required constitutes a breach of the contract."


source: https://legal-dictionary.thefreediction ... he+Essence

Are you about to sign a bond, or are you trying to get out of a bond?
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Slammerdoon
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by Slammerdoon »

Thanks for that. Not trying to get out of the bond, I agreed to it and will pay but I cant afford to pay it in one go (for the reason of the income received having been so low) so will have to agree to a monthly repayment.

Sounds like time is of the essence is something that would apply better to a construction type contract and wouldn't be able to enforce a time constraint in a Pilot bond situation.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Never ever pay out a bond. Ever.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by AuxBatOn »

PostmasterGeneral wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:55 pm Never ever pay out a bond. Ever.
And what, get your credit rating and reputation trashed? Risked getting sued? For not honoring what you said you would?
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digits_
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by digits_ »

AuxBatOn wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:55 pm Never ever pay out a bond. Ever.
And what, get your credit rating and reputation trashed? Risked getting sued? For not honoring what you said you would?
How would not paying out your bond trash a credit rating?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
altiplano
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by altiplano »

It means pay is quickly, before you reconsider or get legal advice.

I'd scrutinize what you signed.

Is it even an enforceable legal document?

Does it reflect an appropriate amount?

Did you quit for cause?

Lots of reasons that you shouldn't repay a bond.

Were you ever asked to break the law?

Extend duty days for invalid reasons? 24 hours on call? Not write aircraft snags? If anything like that is the case how could you possibly continue working there since you are being required by the employer to break the law.

A bond isn't always cut and dry that you owe.

Good luck and do it on your terms.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

Slammerdoon wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:05 pm Thanks for that. Not trying to get out of the bond, I agreed to it and will pay but I cant afford to pay it in one go (for the reason of the income received having been so low) so will have to agree to a monthly repayment.
Good on you for being true to your word and your signature. People like you are keeping type training from being a cash-up-front affair at every new job.

I forget if my old bonds had that wording but assuming no malice on the part of your employer it’s likely there as your acknowledgement that you won’t intentionally sit on a debt for years. Without it a decent lawyer could probably get a judge to sign off on you paying whenever you feel like whether that’s today, next week, twenty five years from now, or whenever.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by AuxBatOn »

digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:11 am
AuxBatOn wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:55 pm Never ever pay out a bond. Ever.
And what, get your credit rating and reputation trashed? Risked getting sued? For not honoring what you said you would?
How would not paying out your bond trash a credit rating?
Company goes to a collection agency.
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daedalusx
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by daedalusx »

I know a very decent 703 company that will absolutely enforce the bond and they will lawyer up even if the cost of collection is higher than what they’ll collect. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. If you want to bail after 3 months for that oh-so desirable Jazz job and you signed a bond then pay up or face consequences (ruined credit,collection agencies harassing you, etc)
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
digits_
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by digits_ »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:00 am
digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:11 am
AuxBatOn wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 pm

And what, get your credit rating and reputation trashed? Risked getting sued? For not honoring what you said you would?
How would not paying out your bond trash a credit rating?
Company goes to a collection agency.
I admit my knowledge of this is fairly limited, but isn't that only the case after they get a court order? So they would have to prove to a judge the bond is valid. Then, if you still refuse to pay, a collection agency could get involved and start affecting your credit rating.
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:27 pm
AuxBatOn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:00 am
digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:11 am

How would not paying out your bond trash a credit rating?
Company goes to a collection agency.
I admit my knowledge of this is fairly limited, but isn't that only the case after they get a court order? So they would have to prove to a judge the bond is valid. Then, if you still refuse to pay, a collection agency could get involved and start affecting your credit rating.
Sorry, but no: a creditor (in this case, the employer) is not required to obtain a judgment before assigning a debt (in this case, the employee bond) to a collection agency. Note that this does not mean a court would necessarily rule the bond to be enforceable, should recovery efforts include litigation.
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digits_
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by digits_ »

YYZSaabGuy wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:24 pm
Sorry, but no: a creditor (in this case, the employer) is not required to obtain a judgment before assigning a debt (in this case, the employee bond) to a collection agency. Note that this does not mean a court would necessarily rule the bond to be enforceable, should recovery efforts include litigation.
Interesting. What happens then if the bond is found to be unenforceable, or if the collection agency makes a mistake and chases wrong guy? Aren't there some checks in place before a collection agency affects your credit rating? I was under the impression that a collection agency becomes powerless as soon as you dispute the charge. The creditor then has the option to go to court or drop it.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
iflyforpie
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by iflyforpie »

Image
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Gino Under
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by Gino Under »

It is very poor legal advice from any non-lawyer on an aviation forum to think NOT paying a bond is good advice. It is also idiotic to suggest reading the contractual agreement signed is the time to review what two parties agreed to.
Seriously. Give your head a shake.

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ayseven
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by ayseven »

I was under the impression that paying for a job was against the law in our country. Why is this OK?
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:36 pm
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:24 pm
Sorry, but no: a creditor (in this case, the employer) is not required to obtain a judgment before assigning a debt (in this case, the employee bond) to a collection agency. Note that this does not mean a court would necessarily rule the bond to be enforceable, should recovery efforts include litigation.
Interesting. What happens then if the bond is found to be unenforceable, or if the collection agency makes a mistake and chases wrong guy? Aren't there some checks in place before a collection agency affects your credit rating? I was under the impression that a collection agency becomes powerless as soon as you dispute the charge. The creditor then has the option to go to court or drop it.
If you can prove to the collection agency that you didn't sign the bond and they have the wrong guy, then the agency is required to go back to Equifax, TransUnion, etc. and correct any reports it may have placed on your credit bureau records (although ensuring this actually gets done may require some follow-up). As a general rule, simply telling the collection agency that the debt is being disputed won't preclude ongoing collection activity, although a smart agency will go back to the creditor and confirm the particulars. If the balance claimed is large enough, and if the commission (most agencies are paid on a contingent fee basis) is large enough, and if the creditor authorizes it, the collection agency may pursue legal action, which provides the debtor an opportunity to dispute the matter before a judge. If the court rules the bond to be unenforceable, then that's it: the obligation is effectively extinguished.
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digits_
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by digits_ »

YYZSaabGuy wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:37 pm
digits_ wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:36 pm
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:24 pm
Sorry, but no: a creditor (in this case, the employer) is not required to obtain a judgment before assigning a debt (in this case, the employee bond) to a collection agency. Note that this does not mean a court would necessarily rule the bond to be enforceable, should recovery efforts include litigation.
Interesting. What happens then if the bond is found to be unenforceable, or if the collection agency makes a mistake and chases wrong guy? Aren't there some checks in place before a collection agency affects your credit rating? I was under the impression that a collection agency becomes powerless as soon as you dispute the charge. The creditor then has the option to go to court or drop it.
If you can prove to the collection agency that you didn't sign the bond and they have the wrong guy, then the agency is required to go back to Equifax, TransUnion, etc. and correct any reports it may have placed on your credit bureau records (although ensuring this actually gets done may require some follow-up). As a general rule, simply telling the collection agency that the debt is being disputed won't preclude ongoing collection activity, although a smart agency will go back to the creditor and confirm the particulars. If the balance claimed is large enough, and if the commission (most agencies are paid on a contingent fee basis) is large enough, and if the creditor authorizes it, the collection agency may pursue legal action, which provides the debtor an opportunity to dispute the matter before a judge. If the court rules the bond to be unenforceable, then that's it: the obligation is effectively extinguished.
Thank you for the information!

So to summarize: credit agency can, at their sole discretion, decide to screw up your credit score? And if you don't agree, you have to go to court to prove your innocence?

In this example, hypothetically, let's say the bond is being disputed, because the pilot left because the company asked him to do illegal stuff. Company hires a collection agency and says the pilot is lying. Collection agency believes its client. Pilot refuses to pay. Can the collection agency in this case decide to screw up the credit rating to put pressure on the pilot, even if it believes the amount of the bond is too low to actually go to court?
Sounds like the maffia if that is true :rolleyes:
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Slammerdoon
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Re: Time is of the essence

Post by Slammerdoon »

. deleted
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Last edited by Slammerdoon on Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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