FAA bans US flights over Middle East....

[rookiepilot]

FYI.....

IRAN, Iraq, gulf of Oman, Persian gulf....apparently notams out....US carriers

(There is significant news in the region tonight)

Ukrainian plane down...crashed on takeoff.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/middleea ... index.html

[Inverted2]

It was mistakenly shot down according to reports now...... Glad I don’t fly over in that part of the world.

[daedalusx]

Reminder that in 1988 the US navy shot down an Iranian passenger aircraft killing all 290 people on board. The excuse given by the US Navy was that they incorrectly identified the widebody Airbus A300 for a F-14

"Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed."

Of course they gave a medal to the Capt responsible.

“Rogers remained in command of USS Vincennes until May 27, 1989.[13] In 1990, Captain Rogers was awarded the Legion of Merit decoration "for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer ... from April 1987 to May 1989." The award was given for his service as the Commanding Officer of Vincennes, and the citation made no mention of the downing of Iran Air 655.[14]”

[iflyforpie]

Reminder that in 1988 the US navy shot down an Iranian passenger aircraft killing all 290 people on board. The excuse given by the US Navy was that they incorrectly identified the widebody Airbus A300 for a F-14

"Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed."

Of course they gave a medal to the Capt responsible.

“Rogers remained in command of USS Vincennes until May 27, 1989.[13] In 1990, Captain Rogers was awarded the Legion of Merit decoration "for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer ... from April 1987 to May 1989." The award was given for his service as the Commanding Officer of Vincennes, and the citation made no mention of the downing of Iran Air 655.[14]”

And George HW Bush was quoted as saying indirectly related to this incident that he would never apologize for the United States of America.

I’m not American, nor do I understand the nuances of what it means to be truly American, but in my personal experience and that of my nation it takes a stronger person to apologize than to deny responsibility, be indifferent, or rationalize actions. Our nations leaders in the last few decades have apologized for all kinds of wrongs our nation has done. Mulroney apologized for Japanese Internment. Harper apologized for residential schools. Trudeau has apologized for almost everything.

Obama was criticized for his apologies. That it made America seem weak. That it invited enemies to attack. Quite the opposite, I think. You have nations like North Korea or Iran who chant death to America and rattle their Sabres a little bit... and like that annoying troll they get bored or otherwise don’t do anything that will overly destabilize their position or region if you just leave them alone. Sure... respond to attacks or invasions rather than appeasing them, but don’t go looking for trouble. Even the warmongers Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld didn’t dare provoke Iran or North Korea—even as the latter became an open nuclear power in 2006. Obama gave Iran some of its own money back and bought a decade of relative peace.

Trump has changed things. He’s a smart individual—smarter than most people give him credit for—and he knows that any hot entanglement in the Middle East will end his (and Obama’s) record breaking economy and likely quash any chances for re-election in 2020. His responses to the various attacks from and attributed to Iran have been measured and even rational.

However, the breaking of the previous deal is what escalated the situation in the first place... and his dealings with North Korea with escalating threats was ineffective... because Kim John Un wouldn’t risk his power by starting a war and he knew that Trump wouldn’t risk a first strike on North Korea for fear of provoking China as well the world. He called every one of Trump’s bluffs and to me—when you threaten but don’t carry out—shows far more weakness than any apology would.

[Beefitarian]

I agree with the concept pie but sometimes apologizing comes a bit too easy for some Canadians. It dilutes the meaning in my opinion.

I just don't see why our fearless leaders say sorry for some of the things they do. What's the point of apologies for things you had no part of?

Residential schools were devastating and we should try to prevent things like that occurring ever, saying "Sorry" is possibly a nice gesture but not really a fix. Should every Prime Minister apologize once in office? Maybe.

I do agree Bush senior probably should have apologized for what I presume was the accidental downing of that plane. Refusing makes it look intentional.