Landing off airport

[waterdog]

Last year while scouting out lakes to land on that had good beaches to camp on, I came across an abandoned airfield by the Killaloe Vor ( YXI ). The runway is clearly marked closed with white X's but would be a great spot for a fly-in or camping location, much like what happens at the closed Cassey field in Northern Quebec.
That got me thinking, how can you legally land on a closed runway? I didn't, I flew over it to check it out and then went and landed in Round Lake to continue my camping scout. But I still think about it and have no idea where to turn for the answer.

Presumably, you would need PPR from the owner at the very least, but once the location is closed the contact information is deleted.....

Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

K

[photofly]

Depends what you mean by “legally”. Other than things like provincial parks (provincial laws), built up areas (CARs), fire zones, and whatnot, you can land anywhere. If you land without permission that would be a trespass, with which the government has no interest, but the remedy for which is for the owner to take you to court and prove damages.

[PilotDAR]

The first thing would be that your insurance would not cover you landing on a closed runway. If, while you're insurance not covering you became a problem, you'd be having a stressful conversation with TC. You have no assurance that a runway marked as closed is fit for use. Potholes, loose surface or ruts generally make it not worth the risk. If an owner has "X'd" a runway, it is unlikely that they're going to grant you permission, as they don't want the problem, if you have a problem landing there.

I once purposefully landed on an unopened section of highway under construction (well actually, many times, I only got caught once). The four RCMP, and two more local police officers made it their afternoon's mission to give me a hard time about it, with threats of license violation. Ultimately, nothing came of it, but I didn't pull the tiger's tail any more either....

[photofly]

The first thing would be that your insurance would not cover you landing on a closed runway.

Curious how you come to that conclusion vs., say, landing in a field or garden. I don’t believe my policies have a stipulation of prepared surfaces, or runways only.

In Ontario, landing, taxiing or drawing an aircraft on a highway other than in an emergency require full compliance with the highway Traffic Act 1990 (see section 187) on pain of a $10k fine, but then provincial authorities can’t take your pilot licence away.

TC could try an enforcement action on the basis of 602.01.

There used to be section 249 of the criminal code, too, but that was repealed in 2018.

[waterdog]

Thanks Pilotdar and photofly for the response. It does seem a little silly that insurance would have a problem with me landing on a visibly ok stretch of asphalt when I land on the water all the time. I could easily argue that water is far more dangerous, but whoever said that what insurance use to get out of a claim would make sense. Any thoughts on how to track down an owner of a closed runway that is no longer listed or named? Landing there and spending the night is one thing, hosting a flyin is a totally different beast....

[waterdog]

hahahahaha
good ol' google and wikipedia! Found it and maybe this isn't the one to play on....
From Wiki

Killaloe/Bonnechere Airport (IATA: YXI, ICAO: CYXI), near Killaloe, Ontario, Canada, was built by the Canadian Department of Transportation (later Transport Canada) in 1952 as a Cold War airstrip for interceptors. The airport officially ceased operations in 1988, but trespassing is frequent: pilots continue to land on the old runway, and local residents frequently use it for drag racing, despite the badly decayed surface.

In 2004, because of legal liability concerns, Transport Canada planned to cut ditches across the runway to make it unusable, but the plan was suspended while negotiations on possible future use continued.

The associated VOR/DME, YXI, continues in operation and is associated with several airways.

[digits_]

Thanks Pilotdar and photofly for the response. It does seem a little silly that insurance would have a problem with me landing on a visibly ok stretch of asphalt when I land on the water all the time. I could easily argue that water is far more dangerous, but whoever said that what insurance use to get out of a claim would make sense. Any thoughts on how to track down an owner of a closed runway that is no longer listed or named? Landing there and spending the night is one thing, hosting a flyin is a totally different beast....

Careful, a fly in is considered a special aviation event:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/transport-canad ... 1-2449.htm

"fly-in" - means a prearranged meeting of a number of aircraft at a specified aerodrome which will take place before an invited assembly of persons and at which no:

(a) competitive flying; and

(b) aerial demonstration will take place;

If it is just a gathering of airplane pilots, you'll probably be fine, but if you advertise it publically, you might run into trouble.

[photofly]

Recall that a fly-in is a “special aviation event” that needs an SFOC from the minister (603.01). It’s not just the land-owner’s permission you need. And there are strict requirements.

[valleyboy]

that would be the old Bonnechere airport. Great beaches on round lake. Abandoned runways I can see no fowl unless the owner chooses to act on trespassing. Obviously you are on your own but no different from landing on private strips, eskers, beaches and farmer's fields. You might want to consider equipment, tail dragger is much better than a training wheel.

I spent many a wonderful day exploring off airport destinations in that part of the world and have been to Bonnechere Airport more than once but it was still active then. There was a strip beside the old Killaloe air radio station and beacon site.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Recall that a fly-in is a “special aviation event” that needs an SFOC from the minister (603.01). It’s not just the land-owner’s permission you need. And there are strict requirements.

A fly in exemption exists. See NCR-024-2017

The exemption shows as expired but I am told it is about to be renewed

[digits_]

Recall that a fly-in is a “special aviation event” that needs an SFOC from the minister (603.01). It’s not just the land-owner’s permission you need. And there are strict requirements.

A fly in exemption exists. See NCR-024-2017

The exemption shows as expired but I am told it is about to be renewed

Thank you! What is the official source to find these exemptions? I can find it on a third party website: https://www.bcaviation.ca/uploads/5/3/7 ... 17-024.pdf , but I was expecting a list of exemptions on the TC website. No luck soo far. The document says it is valid till december 31 2020.

[PilotDAR]

Curious how you come to that conclusion vs., say, landing in a field or garden. I don’t believe my policies have a stipulation of prepared surfaces, or runways only.

Agreed, though when you choose to land on a surface specifically marked for do not land, I think there is a different interpretation.

[photofly]

A closed runway means "do not land" only in the context of an operating aerodrome. Once the aerodrome is no longer in operation, the fact that was once a runway is "closed" is irrelevant: It's no more nor less open to aircraft than any other possibly flat area of tarmac.

By the way, 301.04 says "When an aerodrome is closed permanently, the operator of the aerodrome shall remove all of the markers and markings installed at the aerodrome." So if the entire aerodrome is closed permanently, the runway "closed markings" should be removed also.

[TwinOtterFan]

The wife and I took a run down there last summer on the motorcycle just to see the runway. tarmac was in okay shape, nothing else really there. TC Canada still has all there signs up so I imagine they are still the actual owners.