ALPA Jumpseat Question

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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
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HiFlyChick
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by HiFlyChick »

Thanks for the clarification- I'm still using the old term as being "the" jumpseat. I'm a 703 pilot, not 705, but pre-9/11 I did on a number of occasions get to sit in the cockpit jumpseat when the flight was overbooked and I gave my RAIC to the gate agent and said "Please check if the Capt might be willing to have me in the jumpseat", but of course I had actually purchased a ticket.

No wonder I was lost in the discussion - doh!
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derateNO
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

rxl wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
Technically even working for the company doesn't entitle you to the jumpseat either.

Captain's call.

I always enjoyed denying JS requests by the gate agents for a DH pilot. They got real snippy about it.
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ahramin
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by ahramin »

Capt. Underpants wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:38 pm
valleyboy wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:09 am
Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
Actually not that difficult but the catch is it requires a special amendment to a company COM. For some reason a lot of companies balk at this. ALPA even sent out boiler plate wording. Our property for one refused to do it. The higherups were never big fans of reciprocal jump seating.
They would require an exemption to 701.28.
Transport Canada issued a blanket exemption to 701.28 a couple years after 9/11. The sticky wicket is that there must be confirmation of the employment status of the jumpseater. In the US they quickly put the CASS system together to address the similar FAA requirements.

That we accept the situation in Canada is simply a matter of lack of respect for ourselves and our colleagues.
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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

derateNO wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:29 pm
rxl wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
Technically even working for the company doesn't entitle you to the jumpseat either.

Captain's call.

I always enjoyed denying JS requests by the gate agents for a DH pilot. They got real snippy about it.
Of course the use of the jumpseat in the FLIGHT DECK is always (almost) at the captain’s discretion.
The discussion is about reciprocal jumpseat passes for OAL, or own company pilots to ride in an open seat IN THE CABIN for low or no cost. A lot of people rely on this privilege to get to and from work.
I don’t know how anyone would enjoy denying JS requests. If the use of the cockpit jumpseat makes someone’s life just a little bit easier and there is no good operational reason not to use it, then why deny it? Besides, an extra set of trained eyes and ears is not a bad thing to have in the flight deck.
It is, however, at a DH pilot’s discretion whether or not they give up their assigned seat in the cabin to ride up front.
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derateNO
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

Why deny it? Because our pilots are entitled to a seat in the cabin when deadheading, and the company overselling a flight is not a reason to push a young and naive pilot into the JS to make room for rev passengers. I've seen it happen too many times, and when I get asked for JS now I always ask if it's for DH. If it is DH, then it's always no.

Some people, especially new pilots or FA's who don't know how to stand up for themselves in fear being on probation in front of a bully CSA/Gate Agent so I do that for them by making it a non issue.

I never deny actual JS for anyone commuting or flying on passes.
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av8ts
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by av8ts »

Nothing worse as a commuter than being left behind because a DH pilot sat in the js
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hithere
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by hithere »

If I’m asked to put take a DH in the JS, I always ask the gate agent if there are any commuters trying to get on the flight. If there is not, then I ask the DH if they are being forced by the gate agent to relinquish their seat in the back. If the answer to both questions is no then I might take the DH in the JS(sometimes the JS is a better place to be than stuck in a middle seat in economy)
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ahramin
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by ahramin »

At some companies there is a significant bonus for taking the jumpseat on a deadhead. As Hithere has stated, it's important for the Captain to understand if it's a fellow pilot or flight attendant asking for a jumpseat, or if it's the company. The jumpseats belong to the pilots, not the company.
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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

av8ts wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:12 am Nothing worse as a commuter than being left behind because a DH pilot sat in the js
If this happens on your own airline then, agreed. That’s why it’s important for the captain to find out the who's and why’s of jumpseat requests.

Hopefully this will change soon, but as of right now, the flight deck jumpseat is NOT available to OAL pilots. With oversold flights, that last seat in the cabin is going to go to a fare paying passenger (reciprocal jumpseaters generally have the lowest priority of ALL standby passengers) not an OAL pilot trying to ride on a reciprocal “jumpseat” pass. It makes no difference in this situation whether a POS space DH crewmember rides in the flight deck or not.
Who knows, maybe getting one more fare paying passenger on the flight will free up a seat on the next one.
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Last edited by rxl on Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
digits_
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by digits_ »

ahramin wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 am At some companies there is a significant bonus for taking the jumpseat on a deadhead. As Hithere has stated, it's important for the Captain to understand if it's a fellow pilot or flight attendant asking for a jumpseat, or if it's the company. The jumpseats belong to the pilots, not the company.
Right. And the plane is the captain's personal property as well?

Some of the jumpseat related statements get ... interesting .... :roll:
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

All ALPA members should have a look at the jumpseat page on the ALPA website, paying particular attention to the jumpseat policies and etiquette.
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ahramin
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by ahramin »

digits_ wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:12 am
ahramin wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 am At some companies there is a significant bonus for taking the jumpseat on a deadhead. As Hithere has stated, it's important for the Captain to understand if it's a fellow pilot or flight attendant asking for a jumpseat, or if it's the company. The jumpseats belong to the pilots, not the company.
Right. And the plane is the captain's personal property as well?

Some of the jumpseat related statements get ... interesting .... :roll:
Well, we have to draw the line somewhere. The plane is definitely not the Captain's personal property, and the pilots are not the company's personal property. Somewhere between those two extremes is where that line gets drawn. Historically for airline pilots and personally for me, who gets to sit in my flight deck as a passenger is definitely up to me. You are entitled to your own opinion, and if your self worth is at a level that requires you to give up that control to your employer I can only suggest that you consider why that is. It may be affecting other, more important areas in your relationship with your employer.
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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

I'm not sure what this has to do with anyone's self worth, and no one said anything about giving up control over the jumpseat.
Control over the jumpseat means you either allow access to it or you don't based on the operational situation at the time.
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Capt. Underpants
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Capt. Underpants »

ahramin wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 am The jumpseats belong to the pilots, not the company.
Funny. I’ve never seen that written anywhere in a lease or purchase agreement.
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derateNO
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

The Captain controls who is in the flight deck during flight. It's as simple as that.

The only exception is if there is someone from the regulator who requests it with a legitimate reason.

If you think the company can just put anyone in the JS and tell the Captain "you have to have this person in the flight deck with you" there would be a lot of flights staying on the ground.

Who sits in the JS 100% belongs to the discretion of Captain and no one else.
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av8ts
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by av8ts »

At Jazz there is a order of priority for the js in the COM. Dh pilot is ahead of commuting pilot. If you deny the js to anyone then you cannot take someone who is lower on the list.
However, I have denied a DH pilot when asked by an agent and took a commuter. Never heard anything back from the company about it.
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derateNO
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

I've done it as well.

It also says in the Collective Agreement that all deadheading pilots are entitled to a seat in the cabin.

Why anyone would give up their seat unless it's say a YYJ-YVR or something which I could understand is beyond me.

I had a gate agent once try to force me into the JS of a CRJ when deadheading YVR-YWG.
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Canoehead »

av8ts wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:46 pm At Jazz there is a order of priority for the js in the COM. Dh pilot is ahead of commuting pilot. If you deny the js to anyone then you cannot take someone who is lower on the list.
Not quite. DH pilots are not even listed in the COM (It's a mute point... the C/A says DH pilots get a seat in the back).
A pilot on POS Space business travel is a different thing.
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rxl
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Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

derateNO wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:01 pm The Captain controls who is in the flight deck during flight. It's as simple as that.

The only exception is if there is someone from the regulator who requests it with a legitimate reason.

If you think the company can just put anyone in the JS and tell the Captain "you have to have this person in the flight deck with you" there would be a lot of flights staying on the ground.

Who sits in the JS 100% belongs to the discretion of Captain and no one else.
I would say that the captain controls IF someone sits in the flight deck jumpseat not WHO sits in the jumpseat. As someone has already pointed out, there is the COM mandated hierarchy of jumpseat riders that must be followed. Pass priority and seniority comes into play for those travelling on passes. Someone has also correctly pointed out that if the jumpseat is denied to one it's denied to all.
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