The return of bonds?

[North Shore]

One idly wonders, with some smaller places still looking for pilots, and airlines (perhaps) beginning to furlough, whether those smaller operations will start to institute bonds? You could hire the 'experienced' airline guy who is just looking for a safe seat for six months until this all blows over, and will leave as soon as AirABC starts to hire again, or hire the under-experienced rookie who will stick around until after the hire boom, but might pose a greater risk to your safe flight ops...

[digits_]

Did they ever leave?

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Did they ever leave?

Nope

[GoinVertical]

I'd say bonds have been increasing as steadily as the regional hiring has been increasing.

Lots of 703 operators doing "mandatory" upgrades too, so you have to sign another bond before your first one is up.

[flyingcanuck]

Tbh I'd just try to find a non aviation job until things pick up over signing a bond. But that's just me

[TwinOtterFan]

Serious question... are all bonds evil?

[derateNO]

People that sign bonds are dumb.

[TwinOtterFan]

People that sign bonds are dumb.

Could you elaborate? it was a serious question.

[derateNO]

Bonds have always been a shady way for shitty operators to push their pilots to do things they shouldn't in fear of losing their job.

There are enough reputable operators out there that don't have bonds, and if EVERYONE just walked away every time they were told you need to sign a bond they would ALL disappear.

You shouldn't have to stay at a company because of a bond. You should want to stay there because they treat you properly and pay you adequately. Aviation is literally the only industry where people think this is normal.

[TwinOtterFan]

Ah okay, I thought they were a way for smaller operators to ensure you would at least stay long enough to cover the cost of the training they initially put into you. But if they are essentially praying on younger pilots then I would have to agree with you.

[derateNO]

If that was the case most bonds would be $2500 on things like Navajos.

Instead you have places doing "training" on empty legs they are getting paid for and making pilots sign $15,000 bonds for something that cost nothing or VERY little.

It's there to manipulate pilots, that's it.

[trey kule]

North Shore

Interesting question as we had a very similar conversation this afternoon.

Two issues that happened in similar circumstances...
1. Pilots would literally walk out the door when the recall notice arrived., and
2. Training was a nightmare. Somehow a furloughed FO from a heavy had the attitude that they could fly anything smaller that had wings. That and the “ I am just here until I get the recall” attitude made them less than desirable hires.

That being said, someone with lots of previous float experience might have an easy go. Or ag experience. There is a bit of a demand for experience in some types of operations.

Now the bond. I am not certain where DerateNo gets his information, but my take on it is many reputable firms have bonds. And do first class training.
There might be less need for then now, as for the next year or so, I can’t see many people jumping ship. The majors and regionals simply won’t be looking in great numbers, and smart pilots are going to want to hold on to their seat, until the music starts again.

Bonds are a fact of the business. Reputable firms need them to protect themselves from shiny syndrome pilots, and yes, there probably are some companies out there that abuse them..but any pilot that would accept empty leg ride alongs as training deserves what they get.

[GoinVertical]

Trey kule is exactly right; there are reputable operators that treat their pilots well who have had to implement bonds. All because of people caring more about the plane they fly than pay and conditions. Some just want to fly a 787 and will do anything to get the time required to get there.

There are also garbage 703 operators having 19-year-olds sign $15,000 bonds for 0.8 of training on a repositioning flight that was required anyway.

Let's not forget EVAS was asking for a $15,000 cash upfront "bond" not long ago.

Bonds aren't ideal, but if you have to sign one, make sure that it's representative of actual training costs. Not just an arbitrary number to keep you around.

[C-GGGQ]

Bonds have always been a shady way for shitty operators to push their pilots to do things they shouldn't in fear of losing their job.

There are enough reputable operators out there that don't have bonds, and if EVERYONE just walked away every time they were told you need to sign a bond they would ALL disappear.

You shouldn't have to stay at a company because of a bond. You should want to stay there because they treat you properly and pay you adequately. Aviation is literally the only industry where people think this is normal.

My wife was just bonded as a nurse for 6-12 months (depending on hours worked) for getting her dialysis and nephrology position. So it happens in other fields as well

[rookiepilot]

Bonds have always been a shady way for shitty operators to push their pilots to do things they shouldn't in fear of losing their job.

There are enough reputable operators out there that don't have bonds, and if EVERYONE just walked away every time they were told you need to sign a bond they would ALL disappear.

You shouldn't have to stay at a company because of a bond. You should want to stay there because they treat you properly and pay you adequately. Aviation is literally the only industry where people think this is normal.

Another idiot bond thread.

I'm sure all of the small business's today, aviation included, are also laying people off just to screw you.

How stupid are people out there? Are you all THAT dense on the small business destruction happening out there now?

But it's all about you, isn't it.

If the small business's today are all Fat Cats and the living is easy, Derate, then show us how it's done. Work your ass off 24/7 and make your fortune starting your own shop.

[MrAviator19]

Bonds have always been a shady way for shitty operators to push their pilots to do things they shouldn't in fear of losing their job.

There are enough reputable operators out there that don't have bonds, and if EVERYONE just walked away every time they were told you need to sign a bond they would ALL disappear.

You shouldn't have to stay at a company because of a bond. You should want to stay there because they treat you properly and pay you adequately. Aviation is literally the only industry where people think this is normal.

Say that in a room full of experienced pilots, you'll be applauded.

Say the same thing in front of 250-hr wonders, you'll be applauded again. But only until someone offers them a bonded flying job.

As shitty as this cycle is, one can't just simply "walk away". Everyone has to start somewhere and I'm sure a newbie pilot would prefer being bonded into an airplane seat rather than a seat in the dispatch office. Even captains are bonded in many companies but the motive for them is the increase in pay and better life standards. The bond culture is here to stay for a very long time!

MrA