Renting out your privately registered aircraft

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jakeandelwood
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Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by jakeandelwood »

Sorry if this has been previously discussed but I see ads now and again from pilots looking to rent block time from aircraft owners, does anyone know if this is even legal with a private aircraft? I can't seem to find anything on the CARs. I realize the person renting would have to be put on the policy and meet the requirements of the insurance underwriter. It just seems a bit risky with all the lawsuit happy people out there nowadays.
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Bede
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by Bede »

Yes it is legal. For what ever price the market will bear. What isn't legal is providing a pilot with the rental which is now a commercial air service.

You do need to think about insurance requirements though.
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dialdriver
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by dialdriver »

I emailed Transport Canada on this issue a while ago and got the following reply:

"Transport Canada does not publish any regulations pertaining to aircraft rental operations. There are no specific maintenance requirements as well for aircraft rental. Normally, you will require a business licence from the municipality your operation is located within.

With respect to the pilots you rent your aircraft to, CAR 406.03 states that a person who is training for a Private Pilot Licence or Pilot Permit -Recreational may only train at an operator who holds a Flight Training Unit Operator Certificate or is the owner of the aircraft or an immediate family member. Flight training outside this restriction can be done if the aircraft is obtained at arms length from the flight instructor. In plain language you cannot rent the aircraft to a person then provide flight instruction to them".
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by jakeandelwood »

Thank you both for your answers
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futurebushpilot
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by futurebushpilot »

I'm going to be buying a Cessna 150 this week for my own flight training. It will be legal for me to train as it will be mine. The flight instructor will be covered because the name insured (me) is onboard.

Being the name insured, I believe that I will also be able to rent out to those with a PPL or higher (likely those with a PPL building time towards their CPL will be interested) as long as I'm onboard. My idea is to just come along for the ride and get good at using foreflight, radio proficiency, and learning the lay of the land while they fly. They will be the PIC and I will be the name insured which will cover them.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

futurebushpilot wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:27 pm

Being the name insured, I believe that I will also be able to rent out to those with a PPL or higher (likely those with a PPL building time towards their CPL will be interested) as long as I'm onboard. My idea is to just come along for the ride and get good at using foreflight, radio proficiency, and learning the lay of the land while they fly. They will be the PIC and I will be the name insured which will cover them.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
As described you would be the PIC and the renter pilot would be a passenger. The renter pilot could not log any time and you be would fully responsible for everything about the flight. The passenger would only be able to contribute their share of the cost of the flight not the entire cost.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by jakeandelwood »

won't the renters will have to be OK'd by your insurance company if they are at the controls? Just because Transport Canada says something is legal doesn't mean your insurance company is going to be OK with it, in the end they really have the final say.
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ahramin
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by ahramin »

Doesn't matter what the insurance company thinks about it since it would not be legal. An aircraft needs liability insurance to operate legally. If the PIC does not have liability insurance then it doesn't matter who the passenger is, there is no insurance.
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futurebushpilot
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by futurebushpilot »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:01 am
futurebushpilot wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:27 pm

Being the name insured, I believe that I will also be able to rent out to those with a PPL or higher (likely those with a PPL building time towards their CPL will be interested) as long as I'm onboard. My idea is to just come along for the ride and get good at using foreflight, radio proficiency, and learning the lay of the land while they fly. They will be the PIC and I will be the name insured which will cover them.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
As described you would be the PIC and the renter pilot would be a passenger. The renter pilot could not log any time and you be would fully responsible for everything about the flight. The passenger would only be able to contribute their share of the cost of the flight not the entire cost.
They would be acting as PIC, not I. I'll have liability insurance on it, and I believe that, as long as I'm onboard, that other person can legally be PIC. Again, I certainly could be wrong. Finding clear and concise answers is proving a challenge. Any and all help is welcomed.
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Kaykay
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by Kaykay »

futurebushpilot wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:08 am
Big Pistons Forever wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:01 am
futurebushpilot wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:27 pm

Being the name insured, I believe that I will also be able to rent out to those with a PPL or higher (likely those with a PPL building time towards their CPL will be interested) as long as I'm onboard. My idea is to just come along for the ride and get good at using foreflight, radio proficiency, and learning the lay of the land while they fly. They will be the PIC and I will be the name insured which will cover them.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
As described you would be the PIC and the renter pilot would be a passenger. The renter pilot could not log any time and you be would fully responsible for everything about the flight. The passenger would only be able to contribute their share of the cost of the flight not the entire cost.
They would be acting as PIC, not I. I'll have liability insurance on it, and I believe that, as long as I'm onboard, that other person can legally be PIC. Again, I certainly could be wrong. Finding clear and concise answers is proving a challenge. Any and all help is welcomed.
You have to very carefully read your policy. Most cases of what I have seen, you either have to ensure your policy specifically says it covers other people operating the aircraft as PIC or it must be you and that’s it unless it’s a qualified instructor or similar. I personally don’t think they’ll accept liability for any old someone who is not named on the policy.
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ahramin
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by ahramin »

I have never seen or heard of an insurance policy that provides liability coverage for an aircraft based on someone being on board. It's the PIC who needs the liability insurance. The policy will cover named pilots as PIC, and may also cover an appropriately licenced and rated PIC giving dual instruction to a named pilot.

Some policies will also cover any pilot with certain qualifications when approved by the owner. These blanket policies are getting harder to find and more expensive so I'm not sure how much longer we will see them.

In any case, there's an easy way to rent your private aircraft out and still be legal insurance wise. Add the other pilot to your insurance as a named pilot.
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tsgarp
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by tsgarp »

futurebushpilot wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:08 am
Big Pistons Forever wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:01 am
futurebushpilot wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:27 pm

Being the name insured, I believe that I will also be able to rent out to those with a PPL or higher (likely those with a PPL building time towards their CPL will be interested) as long as I'm onboard. My idea is to just come along for the ride and get good at using foreflight, radio proficiency, and learning the lay of the land while they fly. They will be the PIC and I will be the name insured which will cover them.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
As described you would be the PIC and the renter pilot would be a passenger. The renter pilot could not log any time and you be would fully responsible for everything about the flight. The passenger would only be able to contribute their share of the cost of the flight not the entire cost.
They would be acting as PIC, not I. I'll have liability insurance on it, and I believe that, as long as I'm onboard, that other person can legally be PIC. Again, I certainly could be wrong. Finding clear and concise answers is proving a challenge. Any and all help is welcomed.

It comes down to what is in the specifics of your insurance policy. It's pretty standard for a policy to cover you, as non-PIC, if the PIC is giving you dual instruction and is qualified to give that dual instruction. Policies are a bit less clear on what you are proposing; you are on board and your 'friend' is the PIC. I know some people who have done stuff like that. If you are a student pilot I will bet my next pay cheque your insurance does not cover what you are proposing. Your best bet is to have a chat with your insurer and see exactly what the policy covers.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by jakeandelwood »

My insurance company told me for anyone other than me sitting in the left seat and flying they have to fill out a form with all their experience, ratings, hours on types etc, they will then review it and if approved will be put on the policy. Transport canada says you simply need liability insurance but the insurance companies says WHO can get liability insurance.
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futurebushpilot
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Re: Renting out your privately registered aircraft

Post by futurebushpilot »

Thanks for the help!
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