Owning and Operating a plane

[ThatPlaneGuy]

Hey all you cool cats and kittens, I have a few questions that I hope you may be able to help with. First, I'll describe my situation. I've recently decided to take my career and do a 180. I work in the trades in Alberta, and I've decided that I want to pursue a career in aviation. Eventually I want to be flying for a commercial airline, and I've become well acquainted with the road towards that over the past couple weeks (pretty much all the time and money you have). I've started playing around with the idea of buying a plane (Cessna 172 or similar), doing my ground school, and then hiring an instructor while I build hours for my Private and commercial licenses. I am very much not familiar with the world of purchasing, owning, and operating an aircraft, so I want to tap into the large supply of knowledge I've been seeing on these forums. It looks like it won't be hard to find one around the 40k mark, but I understand that repairs would more or less cripple me financially so it's been recommended that I find one I can get minimum 300 hours on before any kind of overhaul. Basically, I'm asking what to look for, start to finish, so I don't end up signing papers on something that will let me down more than 2020 has so far. I've found an airport to store it so that's not an issue, but I'm also curious what insurance looks like for that, as well as fuel costs, and maintenance costs (I've been told it's roughly 700$ every 50 hours. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated, and if you want to throw in some advice that you think I should hear along the way, I promise I'll put it to good use. I'm in the Edmonton AB area if that changes anything. Thank you all so much for your time.

[montado]

That's exciting! But I'm the last person who could pass on some wisdom. The only thing I want to add is consider something rather than a 172. You could buy something awesome, maybe a tail dragger. The 172 is what works for puppy mill pilot schools but that doesn't mean it has to be what works for you. So consider the options. Are you looking for resale when finished training? Is it something you want to keep? Do you want to take it cross country? Want it to be float capable? I just feel like if I was looking to buy a plane I would get really excited thinking of all the options in my budget! Good luck and have fun!

[digits_]

If you want to keep it as cheap as possible, buy a common type, non tail wheel. This will give you more options for insurance, maintenance and instructors.

If you want to have more fun, then by all means go for a more exotic type. Just make sure you have an instructor willing to teach you, and an insurer willing to cover you.

In a few month, most (all?) planes will probably be much cheaper as well. A silver lining of the current covid sitation?

[JasonE]

My advice with the current economy would be to wait a month. More people will get to the breaking point of needing to sell with the covid situation.

All it takes is 1 major expense and the cost will skyrocket above renting. However you will have the freedom of flying when & wherever you want not worrying about the hobbs. It will open up opportunities you won't have with renting.

[AirFrame]

I recommend the first thing you do is find a local flying club to join. You'll meet lots of owners and pilots, and you'll make some friendships that will help you out down the road. A good AME is good to know, chances are a local club has at least one who flies for fun. A local club will also have a wide variety of aircraft types that you might be able to look at/ride along in to help you decide what kind of flying you'd like to be doing once you're licensed.

I second the recommendation for staying with something that's easier to insure and find an instructor for. Tricycle gear probably, and Cessna probably. If you fit in it, there's nothing wrong with learning in a 150 or 152, and it'll be just as easy to sell it later.

As for Commercial prospects, I predict we're going to see a few years of lean times in the Airline world. Until we have a vaccine for Covid-19, travel restrictions and social distancing measures will continue and the need for airline pilots will remain depressed. The pilots who are out-of-work will be the first hired back when the market returns, so there will be another period of no, or limited, hiring until the ones who want to return have... And it won't be a fast ramp-up.

[GoinVertical]

If you don't plan on using the aircraft for any serious travelling, and training is your main goal, definitely get a common type (152, 172, Cherokee). You'll have an easier time finding instructors, and an easier time selling the aircraft afterwards.

Remember that just because something isn't due for overhaul it doesn't mean it won't break and need an overhaul anyway. I would say if you don't have the cash reserve to pay for a fresh engine if you need it, then accept the fact that if something funny happens you may end up grounded until you can raise the funds.

Definitely find a local flying club and get friendly with some other aircraft owners.

If you have the capital to buy a plane outright then I think it's a good idea to go this route. If you have to rely on a loan then remember the costs of ownership can be very variable, and if you end up paying for a new engine and a bad 100-hour inspection, then you might have been better off just going to a flight school and renting...

[ahramin]

You will want to join COPA, EAA, EAA Chapter 30, and any clubs at your local airport. Start going through the back issues of the first two's publications. Buy or borrow all 4 books on aircraft ownership by Mike Busch.

[ayseven]

Right now, things are too up in the air... One good reason for buying, is that you can't rent airplanes and take them overnight anywhere, anymore. How are you going to get your XC time? Going forward, there may be a lot less business for the schools and clubs, so they may start allowing this again, so renting is perhaps a better option. A big question is "How much tolerance for BS and accounting do you have?", because there are ongoing costs that might get very annoying to have to deal with, not to mention "Who is going to repair this thing when I have a snag?" There has been a big shortage in AME's too.

[Big Pistons Forever]

All it takes is 1 major expense and the cost will skyrocket above renting. However you will have the freedom of flying when & wherever you want not worrying about the hobbs. It will open up opportunities you won't have with renting.

That is the rub with buying your own airplane. It can be cheaper than renting or it can be a lot more expensive. The challenge is to find a knowledgeable mentor who can guide you. As a rule I would ignore anybody who has not owned an airplane themselves, preferable several planes over many years.

A good first step is to just visit airports and talk to people as a way to develop relationships with local pilots. Trust me they won't be shy giving advice but you will get a good selection of view points and make contacts. Unfortunately with the current virus problem this is harder to do but there are still people out flying and you can still talk from 6 feet away

[ThatPlaneGuy]

I recommend the first thing you do is find a local flying club to join. You'll meet lots of owners and pilots, and you'll make some friendships that will help you out down the road. A good AME is good to know, chances are a local club has at least one who flies for fun. A local club will also have a wide variety of aircraft types that you might be able to look at/ride along in to help you decide what kind of flying you'd like to be doing once you're licensed.

I second the recommendation for staying with something that's easier to insure and find an instructor for. Tricycle gear probably, and Cessna probably. If you fit in it, there's nothing wrong with learning in a 150 or 152, and it'll be just as easy to sell it later.

As for Commercial prospects, I predict we're going to see a few years of lean times in the Airline world. Until we have a vaccine for Covid-19, travel restrictions and social distancing measures will continue and the need for airline pilots will remain depressed. The pilots who are out-of-work will be the first hired back when the market returns, so there will be another period of no, or limited, hiring until the ones who want to return have... And it won't be a fast ramp-up.

Yeah I was figuring that it'll be years before the aviation industry recovers, but it'll take me years to get to that level anyways, I'm 21, have a backup career, and am comfortable biding my time. Essentially, I just want a plane I can get my hours on with a low probability of getting screwed over by it. But if I'm buying a plane, I want to see if I can find something that me and the boys can just take off to Kelowna in on a weekend if that's feasible. (It's a big expense, and I may as well look for a way to reap the benefits if it's feasible). I'll need the hours anyways, so why not go somewhere other than my backyard. Ive been told to look at hours and service record's, but have no idea what those numbers mean even when I see them. I'll be looking at financing the plane for sure, and depending on how much plane ownership will cost, it may be smarter to flip it after I get the hours or keep it and enjoy it. I'm definitely gonna look into joining a flying club in the near future, so I'll learn what I can from them. Not looking to make this purchase tomorrow, but in the 3-6 month timeline. I'm just gathering all the information I can so I can establish a bottom line for myself. I know I just replied to one comment, but I read them all so far and am super thankful for all the input!

[JasonE]

I've owned 1 plane, a modest Cherokee 140 I bought for flight training. I continued to put over 300 hours on it in 3 years after getting my license. Had a blast, flew all over. When I was ready for an upgrade I sold it, then the upgrade never happened. Now I'm planning to go another route and build (RV8). In the meantime I've been lucky enough to have access to several types (PA24, J3, C172) through rental with very reasonable rates. My end calculation after selling the Cherokee was about $90 (taxes in) per hour (wet) with good proper maintenance. It was cheaper than renting, but I never had a major breakdown either. We did do the service bulletin to check the wing spar and replace all the fuel lines which was costly but worthwhile with the history of Cherokee spars and corrosion. 0 timed our prop too, which made a big difference (gained 5 kts cruise). If I had to replace cylinders or any major engine work it would have been cheaper to rent, but I wouldn't have flown so my hours and had so many great experiences.

If you can find a like minded partner it can really help with the fixed costs. But keep in mind the more partners the less availability of the plane and diminished savings as you increase the total number involved beyond 2. If you can afford it, buy something modest and fly often!

[jakeandelwood]

One thing about owning vs renting is you have to fly lots to justify it. The more you fly your owned plane the cheaper per hour it becomes but it becomes more expensive per year because of the gas. The hour figure that is the tipping point will be different for every plane. I've owned a Cessna 210 for a number of years now and I only fly about 35 hours a year, it's obviously way more expensive than renting a 172. I spend about 10k a year not including gas, and I do my own oil changes. I find it worth it in the end because I have a faster plane that I can't rent anywhere that I can jump into and go anywhere when I want, it's nice not having to schedule a plane and worry about having it back in time for the next renter.

[anofly]

I still say the cheapest flying most of us will ever do is when we rent....
Find a good school, fly a lot, like 4-5 hrs a week if you can swing it, if you can swing 6-7 hrs a week you will be done in 10 weeks.
Too much to do learning to fly, to be learning to maintain and MANAGE the mtce... if the plane goes down you will not rent, then time will slip and you wont learn as fast.
Once you are done and have a private, you will know a lot more, then buy the cherokee or equivalent and fly your butt off...
finding a local, trustworthy mtce shop with experience on the type you own, and time to slot you into the mtce schedule is important... Its never gonna be cheap, and at times its gonna hurt...,
Schools often have several planes and often can figure a way even when one goes down.
Its pretty relaxing to tell the dispatcher that the brakes are squeaky, and one mag has too much drop, and it seems to use a lot of oil... when its yours......not so much....

[747-875]

Owning an airplane is a fair way to go if you plan on using it lots. If you fly it enough it usually does work out cheaper than renting when you include the fact that you can sell it when your done. I second most of what has been said already...

If basic training, time building, and move on is the primary goal I would consider sticking with the common training types like 152/172 or equivalent. Not super exciting but they are popular for a reason. I would look for something not super basic though so you can still have some fun with it too, nothing crazy required but make sure it's something with enough performance you can actually go places and enough payload you can bring a friend or two, enough so you can fly it a bunch and not be bored of it after a year. A good 172 set up right works fine.

If you're planning to keep it longer term for fun flying too I would consider something a little more exciting, something that goes places, maybe a super cub or a 170 or a 180/185 if you're made of money. The cost would be more and there would be less competent instructors available, but at the same time you'll be able to explore a lot more places and/or bring more friends, have more options for fun, and just in general it would take way longer to get bored with it. Another option is a 172 or something like, get the flying license, and then if you are still interested you could always sell it and buy something else like a taildragger or floats or something.

Costs there are a million catches and traps. Overhauls are expensive, but if the airplane is close to overhaul you might get a good deal on purchase price, something worth doing the math on anyway. Also with overhauls there is the TBO but as mentioned the fact that something isn't due for overhaul yet does in no way guarantee it won't break anyway. It's less likely to break for sure, but it still might, and you'll need to go into it knowing that might happen. Buying could save you thousands but it could cost thousands too, and you will never know for sure until it happens.

One suggestion is maybe find a small group? There's a few airplanes around here that are owned by two to six people. Usually form an association with the people, those people become the board of directors for the association, come up with a set of bylaws everyone can agree on, everyone puts in money, association buys the airplane. Most of the advantages of your own airplane are still there but purchase price and maintenance you can split the cost a few ways. Make sure you have it in clear writing plans for how y'all plan to cover any unexpected maintenance or anything like that though, and also a clear easy to use scheduling app. It does help a lot too if you can find someone/some people that you already know, ask around your circles and maybe some friends or co-workers might be interested in the idea.

Is there a COPA group in your area? If so I would recommend checking them out, they might have some ideas and suggestions that work well for your particular situation and location. The COPA flight around here is a great group, they have some fun fly ins and they seem pretty welcoming to new kids. Lots of very knowledgeable pilots and AMEs in the group, and most are more than willing to offer advice if you ask. You might even find a partner or two interested in a shared airplane.

[final28]

Lots of good points given already. If you are planning on doing your CPL, make sure the plane has a functioning navigation system (GPS, VOR or ADF). You will need that for the instrument training that is part of the commercial license and for your flight test, see the TC flight test guide.