Community/Residential Air Parks

[ogopogo]

A friend owns a home in FL at 94FL. Amazing community of about 50 homes/hangars. A few AMEs there as well, always someone there to borrow a tool from. Resident planes range from C172 to a Citation jet.

Anyway, wasn’t Guelph ON an airpark?

[SkySailor]

What "few" are in Alberta?

3 that I know of:
Twin Island Airpark near Cooking Lake. Grass runway with acreages around it.

Okatoks Air Ranch. Unclear to me that there's any live-in hangars there, though certainly homes backing onto the runway.

SkyPort at Wetaskiwin airport. I live in my hangar here. Biggest problem here is stupid-expensive property taxes. (full commercial tax rate)

For the most part it appears various levels of government throughout Canada haven't the slightest idea that aviation can be recreational, so all aviation zoning is commercial, with the associated tax rates and prohibition of residences on commercially zoned land. In Wetaskiwin, city council has tacitly allowed "Security Suites" to be occupied 365 days a year, as a workaround. At the same time they bumped "Airport Commercial" zoning to the full 'non-residential' tax rates of the rest of the city, which tripled the tax rates I was expecting, and the existing hangars around the airports got tax rates bumped up equally. I suspect similar problems exist all around the country.

Gerry

Thanks for the info.

I have seen the setup in Wetaskiwin, noticed what appeared to be civic numbering on the various structures, and wondered if setting up a 365 day residential occupancy was possible. Six or seven years ago there was a small airfield in the greater Edmonton area (not Parkland), selling lots for this purpose. Can't remember exactly where, but cost was impossible. Around 100,000 per lot. I'm wondering if the present economic realities in Alberta are revising asking prices.
Alberta has many little aerodromes that would be perfect for a hangar/small apartment combo. IF costs could be competitive.
The major problem I see with this whole airpark idea in Canada, unlike the US, is demand. There are so few owners looking for A/C storage and living arrangements in the same package. 99.99 percent of home owners DO NOT want to live anywhere near an active airstrip. The golf crowd in Canada is huge compared to private aviation, and the number of golf-centric housing projects clustered around a course are minuscule compared with regular housing subdivisions.
Another major concern I have is resale. I just don't see it possible to get back all the money that was initially poured in. There will be such little demand for that particular set up, losses are to be expected (low structure valuation). Given a questionable valuation of what the completed structure would be, how would one find construction financing? Pay the whole project out of ones bank account?
With Wetaskiwin taxing properties at 3 times, this has got to be a real incentive killer for setting up, and by lowering demand, harming the properties' valuation. Interestingly, how DOES the municipality come up with valuation? Previous sales?
It's a shame more examples of the hangar/dwelling scenario can't exist within a cost competitive frame. Having a slab-on-grade, pole framed building with an apartment inside would be sweeeet. With the aircraft I have owned, storage was one of my greatest expenses. Being able to combine residential and A/C storage expenses would be fantastic.
For one brief summer, I had the privilege of having my aircraft tied down within a couple of hundred feet of where I lived. Nothing compares with the satisfaction of waking on a summer morning, making coffee while staring out the window at the plane and within 15 min of coffee being ready, blasting off that dew filled grassy field.

[ahramin]

Don't forget Fairmont Hot Springs.

[AirFrame]

I think Mable lake in the B.C. interior is live at airpark or a fly in resort anyway. The nice thing about a live in airpark is all your neighbors enjoy airplanes. I imagine if you bought a place on a Lake and parked a float plane there you'd have at least a few neighbors that would hate you, especially if you had a C185.

Or a Beaver. Or if the local rowing club decided they wanted to have the lake declared aircraft free so they could row (as has happened at least once in BC).

[Tailwind W10]

Thanks for the info.

I have seen the setup in Wetaskiwin, noticed what appeared to be civic numbering on the various structures, and wondered if setting up a 365 day residential occupancy was possible. Six or seven years ago there was a small airfield in the greater Edmonton area (not Parkland), selling lots for this purpose. Can't remember exactly where, but cost was impossible. Around 100,000 per lot. I'm wondering if the present economic realities in Alberta are revising asking prices.
Alberta has many little aerodromes that would be perfect for a hangar/small apartment combo. IF costs could be competitive.
The major problem I see with this whole airpark idea in Canada, unlike the US, is demand. There are so few owners looking for A/C storage and living arrangements in the same package. 99.99 percent of home owners DO NOT want to live anywhere near an active airstrip. The golf crowd in Canada is huge compared to private aviation, and the number of golf-centric housing projects clustered around a course are minuscule compared with regular housing subdivisions.
Another major concern I have is resale. I just don't see it possible to get back all the money that was initially poured in. There will be such little demand for that particular set up, losses are to be expected (low structure valuation). Given a questionable valuation of what the completed structure would be, how would one find construction financing? Pay the whole project out of ones bank account?
With Wetaskiwin taxing properties at 3 times, this has got to be a real incentive killer for setting up, and by lowering demand, harming the properties' valuation. Interestingly, how DOES the municipality come up with valuation? Previous sales?
It's a shame more examples of the hangar/dwelling scenario can't exist within a cost competitive frame. Having a slab-on-grade, pole framed building with an apartment inside would be sweeeet. With the aircraft I have owned, storage was one of my greatest expenses. Being able to combine residential and A/C storage expenses would be fantastic.
For one brief summer, I had the privilege of having my aircraft tied down within a couple of hundred feet of where I lived. Nothing compares with the satisfaction of waking on a summer morning, making coffee while staring out the window at the plane and within 15 min of coffee being ready, blasting off that dew filled grassy field.

You've hit on several of the problems we've got here. As this first row of hangars on the north side of 44 Ave. was getting finished up in 2014/2015 or so the first new city assessments and tax bills came out at rates none of us were expecting. The developer was expecting to start selling lots on the south side of the street in 2015 but with the knowledge of the tax rates sales halted completely.

The standard 70' x 180' lots were selling for $120K, my 60'x60' hangar with apartment was just north of $400k. Not cheap by any means, but as my primary residence it was workable for me. There are no lots for sale, the row is filled. There are two or three hangars for sale in the row however. Do your homework. ;^)

Resale? Forget about it. The tax rates have made it impossible to get your money back out of it. The demand was actually pretty good, if the city was a little more imaginative it could have been a great thing here. I think if they would figure out a zoning that properly allowes residential occupancy and doesn't require it to be a second floor within the hangar, I could see a bungalow beside the hangar being a really attractive option. There are plenty of hangars being built at Edmonton area airports, so the rates here are certainly killing our market.

As for financing when I built, I had lots of feelers out to residential mortgage outfits, and got zero response. I don't mean the refused me, they simply never responded, even when I enquired what happened to my enquiry. Eventually the developer got me connected with a Canadian Western Bank branch in Red Deer who clued me in. The problem was and is, the land is zoned Airport Commercial, they won't touch a residential mortgage there. CWB has given me a commercial loan as my mortgage, and even supplied bridge financing to build. It worked out well enough for me, but with no options available, it's not the cheapest rate.

I expect to have my homebuilt flying this summer so I do look forward to opening my back door and taxiing off to the runway. ;^)
Cheers
Gerry

[Panama Jack]

DHC-1 Jockey’s links underscore the scene. Look at the North American map on www.AirParkMap.com and the lower 48 land mass is obscured by blue circles. Then North and South of that country’s borders, things get very sparse indeed.

[AirFrame]

The problem was and is, the land is zoned Airport Commercial...

I suspect this is the problem, period, with the idea of residential airparks. If the land isn't zoned Airport Residential, you're screwed 8 ways from sunday.

I expect to have my homebuilt flying this summer so I do look forward to opening my back door and taxiing off to the runway. ;^)

Nice.

[Loon-A-Tic]

There's Fox Harb'r in the Atlantic region but it's aimed at the high priced snack bracket. Its where GLEX's go to be "retired" from active duty.

[SkySailor]

Thanks for the info.

I have seen the setup in Wetaskiwin, noticed what appeared to be civic numbering on the various structures, and wondered if setting up a 365 day residential occupancy was possible. Six or seven years ago there was a small airfield in the greater Edmonton area (not Parkland), selling lots for this purpose. Can't remember exactly where, but cost was impossible. Around 100,000 per lot. I'm wondering if the present economic realities in Alberta are revising asking prices.
Alberta has many little aerodromes that would be perfect for a hangar/small apartment combo. IF costs could be competitive.
The major problem I see with this whole airpark idea in Canada, unlike the US, is demand. There are so few owners looking for A/C storage and living arrangements in the same package. 99.99 percent of home owners DO NOT want to live anywhere near an active airstrip. The golf crowd in Canada is huge compared to private aviation, and the number of golf-centric housing projects clustered around a course are minuscule compared with regular housing subdivisions.
Another major concern I have is resale. I just don't see it possible to get back all the money that was initially poured in. There will be such little demand for that particular set up, losses are to be expected (low structure valuation). Given a questionable valuation of what the completed structure would be, how would one find construction financing? Pay the whole project out of ones bank account?
With Wetaskiwin taxing properties at 3 times, this has got to be a real incentive killer for setting up, and by lowering demand, harming the properties' valuation. Interestingly, how DOES the municipality come up with valuation? Previous sales?
It's a shame more examples of the hangar/dwelling scenario can't exist within a cost competitive frame. Having a slab-on-grade, pole framed building with an apartment inside would be sweeeet. With the aircraft I have owned, storage was one of my greatest expenses. Being able to combine residential and A/C storage expenses would be fantastic.
For one brief summer, I had the privilege of having my aircraft tied down within a couple of hundred feet of where I lived. Nothing compares with the satisfaction of waking on a summer morning, making coffee while staring out the window at the plane and within 15 min of coffee being ready, blasting off that dew filled grassy field.

You've hit on several of the problems we've got here. As this first row of hangars on the north side of 44 Ave. was getting finished up in 2014/2015 or so the first new city assessments and tax bills came out at rates none of us were expecting. The developer was expecting to start selling lots on the south side of the street in 2015 but with the knowledge of the tax rates sales halted completely.

The standard 70' x 180' lots were selling for $120K, my 60'x60' hangar with apartment was just north of $400k. Not cheap by any means, but as my primary residence it was workable for me. There are no lots for sale, the row is filled. There are two or three hangars for sale in the row however. Do your homework. ;^)

Resale? Forget about it. The tax rates have made it impossible to get your money back out of it. The demand was actually pretty good, if the city was a little more imaginative it could have been a great thing here. I think if they would figure out a zoning that properly allowes residential occupancy and doesn't require it to be a second floor within the hangar, I could see a bungalow beside the hangar being a really attractive option. There are plenty of hangars being built at Edmonton area airports, so the rates here are certainly killing our market.

As for financing when I built, I had lots of feelers out to residential mortgage outfits, and got zero response. I don't mean the refused me, they simply never responded, even when I enquired what happened to my enquiry. Eventually the developer got me connected with a Canadian Western Bank branch in Red Deer who clued me in. The problem was and is, the land is zoned Airport Commercial, they won't touch a residential mortgage there. CWB has given me a commercial loan as my mortgage, and even supplied bridge financing to build. It worked out well enough for me, but with no options available, it's not the cheapest rate.

I expect to have my homebuilt flying this summer so I do look forward to opening my back door and taxiing off to the runway. ;^)
Cheers
Gerry

Thanks for the info, Gerry!

Construction financing sounds difficult due to the unusual circumstances in this type of scenario. The high cost of lot acquisition and building make it almost prohibitive when self financing.
Tax implications aside, would you say your final cost is the average one can expect for this type of set up in Alberta? Would you venture to guess if an aerodrome located hangar/residence could be done more cheaply in Alberta?
I haven't contacted Twin Island Airpark about land costs and covenants, but by looking at satellite pics, most of the buildings appear to be large houses. I'm thinking lot owners are probably restricted as to building type and size. Either way, it's probably priced somewhere up in stratosphere!

[Tailwind W10]

Skysailor, I can't really speak to "average". In my case I sold my home in Edmonton using it to finance my new home in Westaskiwin. It happens to be in a hangar at the airport. I'd say $400K isn't far off average for a primary residence in Alberta. The one advantage in this row of hangars are that city utilities are available so it's a regular "house" that happens to back onto a taxiway. One owner up the way has chosen not to connect to the city sewer and water, he's built a septic system that he gets it sucked out now and then. It also means he can't get an occupancy permit so he can't live in the hangar. It's a smaller hangar so the whole package was a lot less money than my place. My neighbor on the one side and the other two doors the other side are substantially larger buildings are I've heard might be into seven figures. You can build what you like. ;^)

There's no land to buy here for the time being. If the city ever decides to make the tax structure closer to residential rates it will probably open up again. For the time being any new owners are limited to buying one of the existing hangars that are for sale.

I know a fellow at Twin Island. I believe the residents own the whole parcel of land the airport is on, so I expect it's some form of collective, perhaps a condo association. Each owner builds as little or as much as they want. I've no idea if there's any open land or existing properties for sale. Certainly worth checking with the locals.

Cheers
Gerry

[SkySailor]

Skysailor, I can't really speak to "average". In my case I sold my home in Edmonton using it to finance my new home in Westaskiwin. It happens to be in a hangar at the airport. I'd say $400K isn't far off average for a primary residence in Alberta. The one advantage in this row of hangars are that city utilities are available so it's a regular "house" that happens to back onto a taxiway. One owner up the way has chosen not to connect to the city sewer and water, he's built a septic system that he gets it sucked out now and then. It also means he can't get an occupancy permit so he can't live in the hangar. It's a smaller hangar so the whole package was a lot less money than my place. My neighbor on the one side and the other two doors the other side are substantially larger buildings are I've heard might be into seven figures. You can build what you like. ;^)

There's no land to buy here for the time being. If the city ever decides to make the tax structure closer to residential rates it will probably open up again. For the time being any new owners are limited to buying one of the existing hangars that are for sale.

I know a fellow at Twin Island. I believe the residents own the whole parcel of land the airport is on, so I expect it's some form of collective, perhaps a condo association. Each owner builds as little or as much as they want. I've no idea if there's any open land or existing properties for sale. Certainly worth checking with the locals.

Cheers
Gerry

Thanks, Gerry. An occupancy permit is a must, not just for the dwelling purpose, but also compliance for provincial residency legislation (ie. becoming an Alberta resident).
I'll check with the folks at Twin Island sometime in the future regarding options for that location.

Best wishes for your future amateur built endeavors!

[Beefitarian]

There were acreage lots at Fort McLeod Alberta for sale backing onto the runway about 17 years ago. You were able to build a hangar and separate residence. Horses were also allowed.

You might still be able to buy one off a current owner. Nice paved runway. A bit windy.

[TwinIslandAirPark]

[/quote]

Thanks, Gerry. An occupancy permit is a must, not just for the dwelling purpose, but also compliance for provincial residency legislation (ie. becoming an Alberta resident).
I'll check with the folks at Twin Island sometime in the future regarding options for that location.

Best wishes for your future amateur built endeavors!
[/quote]

Hello SkySailor!

New to this website, and seeing that you may have been interested in Twin Island Air Park at some point. I have a house there for will be for sale in the next while. Would you PM me if you are interested, or know of someone who may be? Might be a good fit!

Thanks!

[TwinIslandAirPark]

Hi all:

I'm going to post this in a new thread, but I do have a house for sale in Twin Island Air Park that will be available to purchase in the next little while, so if anyone is interested, please let me know. As you know, it's a unique opportunity!

Thanks!