Is it worth it???

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:36 am

Hey everyone, Im just wondering if anyone has any opinions. Is it worth it to obtain a cpl, you know with todays aviation industry, or should i just fly privately and choose a different career. I heard many stories of commercial pilots that had their licence for a while and are still looking for a decent job. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or opinions.

Thanks alot

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:16 am

Well, in this industry you have to be persistant and dedicated. I have often wondered if im doing the right thing with my life but when I look at my friends who have desk jobs or some other career I think ya it would be nice to have a steady income and know were im going to be next year. But Ive flown all over the country and have seen parts of the world that people pay thousands of dollars to visit. As well I have oportunities to work and visit all over the world! And when I do come home for a visit everyone wants to hear my "work stories" were others just say "same old same old" and have to pay money to have an adventure. So back to your original question is it worth it........ Yes its worth it to me. Avcanada useally has alot of negative stuff about aviation but I dont think anyone of these people will trade what they do for a job behind a desk. every job has its good and bad but every once in a while, and even though im pretty young I think I cant believe what I have done and seen in such a short time.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:51 am

You make a very good point, I dont really want an every day job, and personally i dont think i would be happy doing anything else. Im sure its all worth it in the long run. Thanks alot for your opinion.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:52 am

You make a very good point, I dont really want an every day job, and personally i dont think i would be happy doing anything else. Im sure its all worth it in the long run. Thanks alot for your opinion.

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:28 am

No prob cant belive other havnt spoken up, Cmon people young aviator here were supose to help each other

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:19 am

It is good to challenge your motivations from time to time with questions like this. We are no doubt living in a changing world and an industry that likewise is undergoing historical changes. The following is my view of things, and therefore just my opinion.

You should ask yourself what your career goals are. First of all (and although I have never been one) I believe that if your career goal is to be a bush pilot, the career outlook is unchanged-- in other words, there are tough times now, yes, but things will be better again. This is the cyclical cycle that affects aviation.

Likewise, if corporate aviation is your mettle, I think that there will be more opportunities in the future, although we are still far away from the conditions and image it has in the United States. Remember, corportate aviation work environments and benefits can range from deplorable to heavenly.

I personally think that the greatest changes will be seen in airline aviation-- and if this is the area you have your heart set on, you need to make some real assessments. Firstly, Air Canada, either as a company or as we've come to know it, is history. So are the other legacy carriers-- the glamorous days of airlines are simply over, and this is as much a worldwide trend as it is domestically.

The replacement are leaner, more competitive niche carriers. As a result, it will mean more work days for less pay, less benefits, many non-union environments, possibly less job stablility, no pension plans. The competition will be equally intense getting into these jobs.

So if you can be happy topping out at $80K as a captain, with you contributing to an RRSP and having investments on the side, yes, you could also be happy here. But if you had visions of being a well paid Air Canada captain flying wide-body Trans Oceanic trips a few times a month, well, you might end up being disappointed.

N2 · Post by N2 » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:32 am

If you're looking for financial and job stability I would suggest you forget aviation. Join the police force or fire department if you want an exciting career, you'll be far better off financially in the end. Most of the trades now are paying excellent wages. For example I just saw a job posting in the local paper for a HVAC technician …..90k per year with all benefits and pension.

Most (not all) of the guys I know who fly will never catch up financially (that is assuming they don’t hit any layoffs along the way either) to those who went into trades or a career such as I mentioned. Like one of the others said the days of the high wages and few days work is eroding quickly. Another point to consider is that you’ll have to lay out a lot of coin for training and your first few jobs will probably pay lower than the what the paperboy makes.

Consider getting yourself into something that will allow you to fly when you want. You might find that more enjoyable than scratching for every penny as you most likely will in aviation for a good many years to come.

Sure flying is addictive but so is eating….or so I am told. When I get enough money to eat I’ll let you know how I make out with it.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:49 am

I guess like everybody has said it all depends on what you like to do. Aviation can be a very rewarding career, but it’s not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of time and dedication and the willingness to go anywhere. I often think about what I would be doing if I wasn’t flying, especially when the pager goes off at around two in morning. There are lots of things that tweak my interest none of which are behind a desk. If you don’t have the heart for flying, then keep it as a hobby and make your living doing something else.

cargo_guy · Post by **cargo_guy** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:28 am

If its what you really want to do with your life, go for it!

I've been at this for quite a few years and have found it can be quite frustrating at times, and not always fair. Presently, I'm at a desk job that pays allright. I could make a decent living if I stay where I am, but I would feel like I sold out. To be quite honest, I'm miserable because I'd rather be flying!

I envy those of you out there who get to do this for a living.

If you have the chance, and really, really want it then I say go for it!

Just my two cents...

Cargo_Guy

dctthefield · Post by **dctthefield** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:06 am

In my personal opinoin - no, it's not worth it.

Take the extra money you'd make at any normal career and buy confirmed tickets anywhere you want to go. Make your 'stories' during your free time rather than while at work. Most pilots tell good work stories cause work is all they've ever known!

If you're financially savvy, think of this. You'll plan to make around 25K for the first 5-7 yrs of your flying career. The alternative, get a unionized grunt job, make around 50K each year, and invest the difference for that 7 yr period (plus the cost of your training). Even if you retire making 240K flying a 747 (and you won't), you'll still not be as financially successfull as that forklift driver.

In truth, I'm a little bitter, but I when I try to look at this from a logical point of view - this is how I see it.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:22 am

Everybody has great opinions on this subject. The way i see it is if i dont get my cpl some other guy(nothing against him) with a cpl will just end up being where i would like to be. Sure lots of people say its not worth it due to poor pay and economy, And i tend to agree. But whats more important, money and not looking forward to going to work or less a pay and harder times in the begining but looking forward to waking up in the morning and going to work(knowing you are going to fly an airplane).

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:27 am

Highflyingpilot, how old are you? Where do you see yourself in ten to fifteen years? Does lifestyle matter? Family? It may look exciting in your early twenties, but as years go by, lifestyle, family and security may be your true desires. These are some of the intrinsic things you may have to put off in order to suceed in aviation. God speed.

Coastal Cowboy · Post by **Coastal Cowboy** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:29 am

HighFlyinpilot,

I agree with the guys on this forum. You need to persistent and positive to get a good job in this industry. AVCanada is our outlet, so there are a lot of negative things flowing around on here.

For me, my last employer was the model for this industry. He paid us well, treated us with respect, had beautiful aircraft and in turn we did everything we could to help mke money.

Now I work for slave driving pricks who can't tell the difference between their asshole and a good management decision.

For me though it has been worth it. You'll never have a better window office and you'll always be challenged. A nice perk is that you will have the opportunity to live all over the world, or just visit depending on the circumstances.

The best part is that you get to fly for a living, not many people can say they share a hobby with a bird.

It's a different life, make the choice that you think is best for you and you'll be happiest I'm sure.

Cowboy

N2 · Post by N2 » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:34 am

Highflying, not to put a negative spin on things but when you said wouldn't it be nice to get up each morning knowing you're going to be flying an airplane you're assuming that you will have a permanent position. Unfortunately this is not always the case in aviation. Just ask the C3 pilots who are still looking for work or maybe some of those who are going to lose their jobs at AC! The only way for sure you can wake up and know you're going flying is if you own it! Don’t get caught up in a dream world look at the reality of things. In the end though you do what you feel is right for you no matter what anyone says.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:49 am

Highflyinpilot wrote:looking forward to waking up in the morning and going to work(knowing you are going to fly an airplane).

Maybe not so much when the pager rings at 2:00 am and you have 15 minutes to get showered and dressed.

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:09 am

N2, you make an excellent point, In regards with the c3 pilots, are you serious their still looking for jobs. With the many hours they must have and the experience you would think that they wouldnt be struggling. I dont know much about C3 due to the fact that they didnt last very long, but thats crazy some are still looking for jobs. hhhmmm makes you think doesnt it?

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:09 am

Ev'nin' Highflyinpilot...

I saw this thread and figured, lets give you the other side of the story...

Probably like you, I've always wanted to fly, ever since I was 6 or 7, can't remember earlier...I tried the Air Force just to see my eyes fail me...Followed by the greatest depression in history, I then obtained my CPL with my own money...

2 years without a job, I was on the verge of quitting when I got a job in South Africa which didn’t' turn out to be much of what I was told. 4 weeks after that, I had a job in Canada which I kept till the gig shutdown...I then was juicer on the pilot market and flew some more for a little more money! Then it happened, I fell for a girl! I quit my job because of principles; I didn't agree with the new owner...2 more years without a job...

Worked for 12,50$ /Hr, had a shity apartment and no money to do anything on the side!! I asked, same as you are, on this forum for advise and took a hard decision...

I quit, got a great degree, and worked at a desk (The same desk I said I would die working at) and it's actually as rewarding as flying, It's a challenge in itself...I make more money and the Forklifter thing is true!! I will probably have the savings of a 747 captn before I'm 40!!

All in all, I'm happy and I don' fly right now...I read aviation magazines and take detours just to drive past an airport...Where I work, I'm the only businessman who can tell the difference between a Boeing and an Airbus...

While driving, I sometimes, unconsciously, stare blankly at the sky, watch
a glorious glufstream rip the air or a majestic 747 land...And I can't help but think that I once belonged to a race of people who knew how to do such art...

It is worth it, It is the most captivating job I have done, but can you handle the side effects!! That's the real question...

Good Luck

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:14 am

Yoyoma, You said you dont fly anymore, I dont know you but you seem to have quite the passion for flying,(As I and many do). Why dont you rent a plane every once and a while just for a good afternoon spent in the sky.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:17 am

Hehe, I don't right now but in a few years once my investments grow a bit more...

I want to own my own airplane that's for sure...But it'll never be a 777 for instance!!

Highflyinpilot · Post by **Highflyinpilot** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:22 am

Thats cool, Suffer now to enjoy later, Thats the best way to do it.