Private aircraft import

[learcapt]

Hi everyone. Looking for some guidance on importing a Cherokee. Cost, inspection, etc.

Thanks!

[Heliian]

Do a search of posts, there's a couple of people here with experience importing small Ga. I wonder if you have to prove it essential or what?

[photofly]

What guidance are you looking for? If you ask some more specific questions, you can get some answers.

[JasonE]

Travel restrictions are oddly for land crossings only. Oddly you can still cross by air or boat without issue!

From: https://ca.usembassy.gov/travel-restric ... act-sheet/

Q: What will this mean for airline travel and other travel across the border?

A: This action does not apply to entry into the United States from Canada via air, rail, or sea travel at this time, but does apply to commuter rail and ferry travel.

[whistlerboy02]

Plan on spending 10% of the value of the aircraft satisfying Transport Canada
If it has a damage history, even an old one, don’t do it.
If it has any weird mods installed, make sure they are also allowed in Canada
HST due at the border.
If there’s any way you can buy a similar aircraft with a C reg then do it.
I’ve done it, it was painful, spending $600 to replace seatbelts that have a simple tag missing is frustrating

[learcapt]

Thank you so much everyone!!

[broken_slinky]

Also look at having to do a prop overhaul straight away. Very few US planes have had any sort of overhaul in the last 10 years unless there was a prop strike. As Whistlerboy02 stated, you'll spend 10% at least even if the plane is pristine.

[anofly]

I would try to exhaust canadian planes as much as possible first. With our dollar right now planes are heading the other way.

[DadoBlade]

Just curious. What type of Cherokee? There is a lovely Ontario-based 1980 fixed gear non-turbo Saratoga for sale.

[photofly]

Money spent maintaining an airplane to make it suitable for import isn't necessarily money wasted. At the end of the process, you have an airplane that conforms with its type certificate, which is what all airplanes should do. You aren't ever required to do an engine overhaul, or any other items which are at the discrection of a private owner in Canada.

For instance, If a prop is out of limits it would need replacing whatever country it was flown in; that this is only "discovered" when the airplane has been purchased and brought into Canada speaks either to a buyer who didn't do their homework, or who otherwise negotiated the defect into the price and is happy to have it fixed. It would no more be legal to fly that airplane in the United States than it would in Canada.

Note: I'm not saying Canadian maintenance requirements aren't more strict than US ones; they are. But, in theory, at least, importing an airplane requires you only to bring it up to the same level of compliance and inspection as every other Canadian registered airplane.

The actual cost of importing a small plane, outside of maintenance work, can be kept to a couple of thousand dollars, if you do the research and paperwork yourself.

[digits_]

An aspect that is rarely (never?) mentioned in import guides, is what happens if you don't manage to import the plane into Canada. Can you just keep it N registered and sell it back to a US guy, or are you stuck finishing the import before you can export it back again.

For example, during import it is discovered that the windshield is not certified to be used on the plane in Canada, and you need to install a new windshield that is extremely expensive. Can you just walk away and sell it back to a US pilot?

Or the plane has an engine that is not approved for use on that airplane in Canada. Same question. Do you either spend the value of the plane on a new engine or end up with a lawn ornament?

[photofly]

An aspect that is rarely (never?) mentioned in import guides, is what happens if you don't manage to import the plane into Canada. Can you just keep it N registered and sell it back to a US guy, or are you stuck finishing the import before you can export it back again.

For example, during import it is discovered that the windshield is not certified to be used on the plane in Canada, and you need to install a new windshield that is extremely expensive. Can you just walk away and sell it back to a US pilot?

Or the plane has an engine that is not approved for use on that airplane in Canada. Same question. Do you either spend the value of the plane on a new engine or end up with a lawn ornament?

The US registration is cancelled immediately title transfers to a non US-resident owner. So assuming that you get to work after buying the plane (and how could it really be before?) then by the time you figure the ineligibility for import the aircraft is no longer registered in any state, and cannot be flown. Good luck selling that back to a US owner to reimport, at anything but a fraction of what you paid for it.

You'd have more luck if the import work was being done in the US; but typically you'd bring the plane to Canada and have a Canadian AME do the import work here. If you plan do it in the US then you're paying for a Canadian MD to go and inspect the plane in the US when the work is done.

You really need to do your paperwork first.

An interesting question is whether, given it has the wrong engine, your airplane can be "imported" back into the US. They have more lax rules about what you can do to airplanes on the register, but I don't know if they're more lax at import. And a lot of "wrong engine" airplanes aren't legal in the US, either.

[rigpiggy]

1. Pay a canadian ame familiar with the process to go through the books at least to the last rebuild , no form 337s, stc's may or may not be allowed

2. Pay for a prepurchase inspection(pull a jug, look for corrosion everywhere.

Negotiate price based on work to be done.

[photofly]

337's are permitted if supported by the required data, just as a Candian modification would be. if the big box in the middle is completed and stamped by the FSDO then that's generally OK. IF approved as a field modification, then no. But if the modification can be reversed, and you're willing to do so, that's not a showstopper.

Modifications supported by STC's are always allowed. In fact, any STC approved for the aircraft while registered in the US is de-facto approved at import, even if the same STC could not be applied to a Canadian aircraft or the same aircraft after import.

Most importantly, the airframe, engine, and prop serial numbers absolutely must match what's in the logbooks, and the type must have a type certificate in Canada.

[AirFrame]

Most importantly, ... the type must have a type certificate in Canada.

Or it could be amateur-built.

[JasonE]

Just curious. What type of Cherokee? There is a lovely Ontario-based 1980 fixed gear non-turbo Saratoga for sale.

That one's been listed off & on for 6 years now. They even tried to sell shares at one point.

[photofly]

Most importantly, ... the type must have a type certificate in Canada.

Or it could be amateur-built.

Right. I don't know anything about importing amateur-built aircraft. I have imported two type certified airplanes though, one older and one newer, and researched a third (from which I backed away as a result of what I found). My AME also knows the owner of a Canadian lawn ornament which used to be a US airplane with with the wrong engine, so that was a lesson I learned cheap.

[Heliian]

You can make a sale contract that stipulates importation success or have them fly it to you first. Might not be worth it on a Cherokee but anything is possible if you throw enough money at it.

[photofly]

I think a certain amount of realism is in order here:

“Dear US owner, I want to buy your airplane but I demand a contract of sale that let’s me fly your plane to a foreign country and strip it down for inspection before I decide whether I’m going to keep it or not, and whether or not you get paid for it” - if you can negotiate that kind of clause, well, you should go and fix the Middle East, or negotiate with North Korea: you’re wasted on buying airplanes.

If you’re prepared to throw enough money at the problem, budget for fixing or replacing anything that wrong. Just buy a new engine and prop, reverse all the disallowed modifications and redo the repairs.

[Heliian]

I think a certain amount of realism is in order here:

“Dear US owner, I want to buy your airplane but I demand a contract of sale that let’s me fly your plane to a foreign country and strip it down for inspection before I decide whether I’m going to keep it or not, and whether or not you get paid for it” - if you can negotiate that kind of clause, well, you should go and fix the Middle East, or negotiate with North Korea: you’re wasted on buying airplanes.

If you’re prepared to throw enough money at the problem, budget for fixing or replacing anything that wrong. Just buy a new engine and prop, reverse all the disallowed modifications and redo the repairs.

C'mon photofly, you're smarter than that. A legal contract with funds in escrow is acceptable, you're not asking for a free ride, the deal works both ways. Like I said, probably not worth it on a cherokee but we have done this for bigger projects.

OR, if you made a deal where you paid them to fly it up N reg and then did the deal here.

These are actual real world solutions, but i forgot how cheap GA owners are. Just don't buy a plane if you can't afford all of the b.s. that goes along with it.