I would like your opinion?

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redlaser
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I would like your opinion?

Post by redlaser »

Can Transport Canada be sued for not providing a service to the Aviation public, in regards to pilot licences and ratings, Do regulations apply when TC fails to provide the services they are mandated to provide ?, I'd like your input,,,,
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photofly
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by photofly »

Don’t think so:

See the Crown Liability and Proceedings Act:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/act ... age-1.html
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Liftdump
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by Liftdump »

Not 100% sure but the old saying YOU CANT FIGHT CITY HALL comes to mind.
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redlaser
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by redlaser »

Photofly, its 15 pages long but even the government of Canada is not above the law, Omar Khadr got 10 million when he sued the Trudeau government.
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photofly
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by photofly »

There's a difference between the Government acting unlawfully, and the Government failing to act. It's not against the law not to schedule you a flight test, and I don't think you'll get 10 million for it.

On the other hand, if you tried to claim they would book you a flight test in English but not in French, I don't think there's a limit to what you could win.
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iflyforpie
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by iflyforpie »

Flying is a privilege, not a constitutionally guaranteed right. Khadr fought the Trudeau and Harper government for the violation of his charter rights under the Chrétien and Martin and Harper governments.

Good luck with that.
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rookiepilot
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by rookiepilot »

photofly wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:05 pm
On the other hand, if you tried to claim they would book you a flight test in English but not in French, I don't think there's a limit to what you could win.
:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:
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7ECA
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by 7ECA »

The other thing to remember is that this is a bit of an unprecedented situation, so there's bound to be clusterfuckery along the way. I doubt it would matter which party was in power, none of them was or would have been, prepared for this sort of situation.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by jakeandelwood »

lawsuit happy people, aren't they the ones that pretty much brought Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft to their knees in the late eighties?
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

redlaser wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:45 pm Photofly, its 15 pages long but even the government of Canada is not above the law, Omar Khadr got 10 million when he sued the Trudeau government.
You want to sue the government but won't skim through a 15 page document? You're entering a world of pain if you don't like to read.
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Launchpad1
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by Launchpad1 »

Don't want to be glib but sometimes: Shit happens.
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co-joe
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by co-joe »

redlaser wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:45 pm Photofly, its 15 pages long but even the government of Canada is not above the law, Omar Khadr got 10 million when he sued the Trudeau government.
My recollection is that he sued the Harper government, but by the time the suit saw the light of day, Trudeau was in power and got the blame for it. Not trying to be political, not a big fan of selfie boy just pointing out how long these things can take.


As far as the level of service thing, It seems that TC is above the law. And the pandemic gives them an unforeseen circumstance that makes it much more difficult to provide any level of service during this crap.
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455tt
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by 455tt »

redlaser wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:21 pm Can Transport Canada be sued for not providing a service to the Aviation public, in regards to pilot licences and ratings, Do regulations apply when TC fails to provide the services they are mandated to provide ?, I'd like your input,,,,
Yes, of course you can, if you have a case.

You should seek and obtain the advice of a lawyer having experience in this area to review the facts of your situation and applicable law so as to determine if there is a case and if so, whether it is worthy of pursuing.

The federal Crown Liability and Proceedings Act referred to does not prevent one from suing the federal government; it merely sets out the circumstances where a case can be brought and the procedure to be followed.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by jakeandelwood »

If you do end up suing TC hopefully for your sake they don't have a soup nazi list..... "sorry son, it looks like you failed your checkride again, better luck next time"
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Bede
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by Bede »

No you cannot. To sue you must have a provable cause of action. In this case there is none.
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photofly
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by photofly »

455tt wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:02 pm The federal Crown Liability and Proceedings Act referred to does not prevent one from suing the federal government; it merely sets out the circumstances where a case can be brought and the procedure to be followed.
Right... and if this isn’t a circumstance where a case can be brought (and it isn’t) then the Crown Liability and Proceedings Act prevents one from suing the federal government in this case.

In any event, the answer lies in the Act, which is why I posted a link to it.
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rookiepilot
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by rookiepilot »

Probably as likely as the chances of successfully suing YVR Terminal for refusing VFR service.......
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455tt
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by 455tt »

photofly wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:27 am
455tt wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:02 pm The federal Crown Liability and Proceedings Act referred to does not prevent one from suing the federal government; it merely sets out the circumstances where a case can be brought and the procedure to be followed.
Right... and if this isn’t a circumstance where a case can be brought (and it isn’t) then the Crown Liability and Proceedings Act prevents one from suing the federal government in this case.

In any event, the answer lies in the Act, which is why I posted a link to it.
So you are quite certain "this isn't a circumstance where a case can be brought" as you state.

OK.

What year were you called to the bar?
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photofly
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by photofly »

Can Transport Canada be sued for not providing a service to the Aviation public
You can bring suit against the government for a tort; for instance negligence. In order for a claim of negligence to succeed, the plaintiff must show that a duty of care was owed to them by the defendant.

PIlot licences and ratings are aviation documents under the terms of the Aeronautics Act. I don't see anything in the Act that says the Minister must renew an expiring rating, or that a duty of care is owed to a pilot.

The BC Supreme court examined a very similar issue in Gill v. Canada (Minister of Transport). Speaking about the Transport Canada regulatory regime, the court held:
Further, the leading authorities establish that, as a general proposition, statutory duties or powers imposed on a regulator to promote the public interest do not create a duty of care to specific members of the public who benefit from the scheme
The evident and overriding purpose of this aspect of the scheme of regulation is to ensure public safety. The obligations imposed on Transport Canada are owed to the public at large, and in particular, the traveling public as a whole. I do not accept that in discharging its responsibilities to protect public safety in considering whether to allow an operator to continue its operations, Transport Canada is also obliged to consider the economic consequences for the operator if its operating certificate is suspended. In exercising its obligations in respect of such a matter, it is not part of the statutory scheme that Transport Canada promote or protect the economic interests of, or otherwise benefit, the operator.

[32] As with other statutory schemes directed towards the public good, the scheme does not disclose a legislative intention to create a private law duty of care. Provided the regulator deals with regulated entities for the purpose of administering and enforcing the statutory scheme, the interactions with the regulated entity will not give rise to a relationship of proximity, no matter how close and direct that relationship may be.
This case is, of course, distinguishable from what I understand redlaser's complaint to be, on several grounds, which might make all the difference. I look forward to hearing your opinion.
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455tt
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Re: I would like your opinion?

Post by 455tt »

Aha! So you admit that you are not a lawyer.

My recommendation remains the same, which is:

"You should seek and obtain the advice of a lawyer having experience in this area to review the facts of your situation and applicable law so as to determine if there is a case and if so, whether it is worthy of pursuing."
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