Starting my Aviation career in Canada or Europe?

[jtauler]

Hello all!

I am new to the forum, and I'm also pretty new in the flying world. I am originally from Spain and moved to BC three years ago. I have always been passionate about aviation but I didn't really take the decision to shift my career and start studying for it until now, I'm currently PPL student with intentions to get all the necessary ratings to start working as a pilot during the next couple of years.

Recently I have learned about how difficult and costly is to transfer a Canadian License into EASA, which left me a bit worried. I really like BC and I love where I live now, with no intentions to go anywhere for a long while, but scares me the fact that if I start my pilot career in Canada I won't ever be able to go back home and work as a pilot there.

That opens me a big few doubts,
should I just go back home and get my ratings there? I have also read that the EU market is a bit over-saturated, with not many opportunities for young pilots (pre-covid times) which is not really encouraging...Has someone had an experience there?

Is it really that hard to transfer my Ratings if one day I decide to go back to Europe?

Has anyone had a similar experience and could bring me some light to this?

Thank you all!

J.

[PilotDAR]

I've been a Canadian pilot since 1976. I have flown in Europe, though a Canadian plane, on my Canadian license. I investigated getting an EASA license when the plane was re registered in Europe, but the task of converting a Canadian CPL to an EASA CPL seemed daunting. Possible, but costly (fees), and required effort in written exams and flight test.

That said, Canada is much less costly and easy to fly in, particularly long distances. You can accumulate a lot of experience at less cost in Canada than in Europe. So, yes, it's a task to earn an EASA license on top of the Canadian license, but in the big picture, probably less costly than doing the equivalent amount of flying in Europe.

[valleyboy]

For me and of course this actually depends what you want in an aviation career and life style, even the fact I have flown in Canada and North America the most I most enjoyed the years I spent flying in Europe. Aviation is much more civilized there and ironically pilots are respected more and not just considered glorified bus drivers like here. It's a much different system and likely the best way into flying there is through a company sponsored training regime. After that you will be an airline pilot while in Canada its like the wild west with pilots starting as grunts on the ramp or being away from family and friends in some small remote place. Nothing wrong with that if you are a little bit of a tramp but if you are married or in a serious relationship it can be difficult. There is also no guarantee you will ever fly the heavy metal. You need to accept that fact that you could spend your whole career on level 2 or 3 carriers. Aviation in Canada can be fun and rewarding but it can be far more primitive (in a work way) than Europe.
Starting out I kid certainly pick Europe first because Canada can always be an option and far easier to convert to.

best of luck

[ayseven]

Good post, Valleyboy. I think it is pretty much exactly that. I was going to add that if he chooses Canada to start, it is way cheaper, but in the end, if you have to start over again in Europe anyways, cancelling that advantage.

Get the PPL, build some hours, then head to Europe and see what's up there. If it looks as bleak as here, hang out here a while longer, and build more hours. It is all timing in this business, and you need a certain amount of thick skin.

[digits_]

If you want to maximize your chances of finding a flying job, go the Canadian route. It is highly unlikely you'd be flying commercially in Europe in the next 5 years.

It will be hard in Canada as well, but there are much more opportunities. The jobs might not be as nice -even though that is highly linked to what you want to do- but at least you are greatly increasing your chances of actually finding a job.

I'd advice only going the European route if you get in an airline sponsored training program, which might still cost you a lot of money.

[jtauler]

I've been a Canadian pilot since 1976. I have flown in Europe, though a Canadian plane, on my Canadian license. I investigated getting an EASA license when the plane was re registered in Europe, but the task of converting a Canadian CPL to an EASA CPL seemed daunting. Possible, but costly (fees), and required effort in written exams and flight test.

That said, Canada is much less costly and easy to fly in, particularly long distances. You can accumulate a lot of experience at less cost in Canada than in Europe. So, yes, it's a task to earn an EASA license on top of the Canadian license, but in the big picture, probably less costly than doing the equivalent amount of flying in Europe.

Thanks for your repply!

Reading all your comments, seems like focusing on my career here in Canada is legit option for now, and if for some reason I decide to go back to Europe in 10 years, it will still worth converting to EASA, even though it may be expensive and time consuming. I guess all the experience I can build up here will still be an asset there? Or would I have to start from scratch?

[digits_]

Reading all your comments, seems like focusing on my career here in Canada is legit option for now, and if for some reason I decide to go back to Europe in 10 years, it will still worth transfer to EASA, even though it may be expensive and time consuming. I guess all the experience I can build up here will still be an asset there? Or would I have to start from scratch?

The (unfortunate) attitude from most airlines over there, is that if it isn't an airline jet, it doesn't count. In Europe, a lot of airline pilots in management positions, have only known airline flying. They simply haven't experienced the equivalent of 702-703-704 we have here in Canada, so they don't know how to value or judge it. Not necessarily their fault, as there aren't many of those jobs out there anyway, but don't expect your metro time to count for much when competing with airline pilots over there.

If you go back with a few thousand hours of B737/A320 flying, then sure, you could get a junior FO spot in Europe, but even then they won't look at your resume before you have all your licenses converted at your own cost. And once you have that experience and most likely the seniority in Canada, why would you go back anyway?

[Redmud]

I would suggest training in an EASA certified program - perhaps even in the US. You will get an EASA CPL, plus a FAA CPL all in one go... then you take the FAA CPL and convert is easily to the Canadian CPL - ratings and all... very easy...
Good luck,
Red

[complexintentions]

I would suggest training in an EASA certified program - perhaps even in the US. You will get an EASA CPL, plus a FAA CPL all in one go... then you take the FAA CPL and convert is easily to the Canadian CPL - ratings and all... very easy...
Good luck,
Red

If you do think you'll need the EASA, this is very good advice. Much better to get the hardest license first, then convert to the easy ones (TC and FAA) than do it the other way. I did it the other way and it's a pain in the ass.

But unless you have tons of experience and there was actual hiring going on, no number of licenses will help in the current economic climate. Not trying to be negative, just the way it is. Still trending down, hard.

[tuqi]

The testing standards, training philosophies, and experience requirements differ sufficiently between EASA and FAA to make concurrent certification/licensing a waste of time and money for someone who ultimately wants Canadian and EASA licences. Use the Canada–US BASA–IPL if you want a US airman certificate down the road. If it is US training you want then don't limit yourself to the mediocre or overpriced training organisations approved by EASA to deliver courses outside the EASA member states. There's a list of approved training organisations directly under EASA oversight on the EASA ATO webpage here. There is also a list of ATOs located in UK which will become third-country organisations under EASA oversight at the start of next year.

In the current market it makes very little sense doing any multi-engine training. Leave that until things pick up. It only takes two or three weeks to obtain the class rating and associated IR privileges.

It is possible for competent authorities of EASA member states to approve a reduced training course for a licence. It requires the third-country licence holder to be assessed by an EASA approved training organisation which then makes a recommendation to the appropriate competent authority for course reduction. Forget about this if you would take such a training course with only a couple of hundred hours of flight time. Similarly third-country class and type ratings may be added to an EASA licence but sufficient experience is required, namely, 100 hours on class or 500 hours on type as the case may be. These details will be found in Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723 of 4 March 2020 laying down detailed rules with regard to the acceptance of third-country certification of pilots and amending Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 (link).

The Canadian aviation standards give far more generous credit to foreign licence holders. A newly-qualified EASA CPL holder, or indeed anyone trained to CPL standard under the Gosport system, should be ready to pass a Canadian CPL flight test in one to three preparatory training sessions. A multi-engine class rating will be added to a Canadian licence, without needing to pass a flight test, if the equivalent rating was obtained from another ICAO contracting state within the recent 12 months (but there is no time limit in the case of US class ratings converted under the Canada–US bilateral agreement). These credits are clearly set out in part 421 of the Canadian standards.

Things are more promising with the EASA competency-based modular instrument rating. An EASA single-pilot IR in the aeroplane category will be issued for either multi-engine or single-engine aeroplanes which corresponds to a Canadian IR with group 1 or 3 privileges. Subject to a pre-entry assessment by an EASA ATO you may be given a credit of up to 30 hours (35 hours if multi-engine IR) towards the instrument time required for a EASA CBM IR if you have received instrument flight instruction from an EASA instrument rating instructor (or appropriately qualified EASA flight instructor)—for example given outside of an approved training organisation—or if you have prior experience of instrument flight time as PIC on aeroplanes under a third-country IR. A credit of up to 15 hours may be given for instrument flight instruction from other instructors, eg a Canadian instructor as defined in 425.21(9) of the Canadian standards. Finally anyone who holds an EASA PPL/CPL, a third-country IR, and has experience of at least 50 hours as PIC under the IFR (whether or not in VMC) may be fully credited towards the EASA CBM IR flight and theoretical knowledge instruction, including written exam, requirements. All these details are in appendix 6 section Aa, to Part-FCL. See consolidated Aircrew Regulation (link) or look on page 1222 of 1713 in the Easy Access Rules for the Aircrew Regulation (link).

You may begin an EASA CPL modular training course as the holder of an ICAO PPL or higher. An EASA PPL is not needed. The same is true for starting the ATPL theoretical knowledge course, which provides theory credit for the EASA CPL, IR, and eventually (if the IR does not lapse by 7 or more years) the ATPL. See appendix 3 section E to Part-FCL, p 1145 of 1713 in the above Easy Access Rules.

EDITED TO ADD: If you do embark on EASA training ensure you understand what the corresponding Canadian experience requirements are. Some of these are little more onerous, eg the cross-country experience required for the Canadian CPL.

[fish4life]

One factor is you mentioned you have no plans on leaving BC for a while, to fly in Canada commercially chances are your first job won’t be in BC and will be in a remote to semi-remote part of the country.

[jtauler]

Thank you all for your messages!! they have been really helpful in order to decide what my next steps will look like!

I'll finish my PPL here in BC, and start studying the EASA ATPL theory from here while building up some hours. I will move back to Europe in Spring do all the exams and ratings, and then, who knows how the future of aviation will look like!! Maybe back to Canada... I've always dreamed about doing some bush flying in the North, or some flying in remote places... I like adventure, Airlines can wait

Again, thank you all for sharing your knowledge!

J.