***Disregard***
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
***Disregard***
***Disregard***
Last edited by mukluk on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
Oh oh chime in flight instructors in 5-4-3-2-1
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Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
I agree that the post is sort of in poor taste given the timing but do you honestly think that there is no value in flying around with an experienced professional pilot even if only to experience a different perspective? This isn’t 200 hour Timmy we are talking about offering to fly the Navajo charters for free. There is great value in doing some flying with a person who has worked and seen the outside of the circuit.
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Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
There are multiple businesses that provide flight instruction, coaching, or safety pilot services.
Don’t be that guy that does all of that for free. That is just disgusting. You will hurt our profession even more.
Honestly if you want to go up with some friends or people you know and help them out, that’s fine, and I could care less.
Just don’t advertise on Av Canada that you are a free Co-Pilot. It’s just tasteless and you are asking to be roasted.
What kind of experience do you actually have? My guess is you probably only did Max Sim training, and you only have the bare min 2000 hours for AC. You probably sat right seat in a Dash for a few years at Jazz after you left Seneca. You probably have no real experience outside of 705, and you have zero PIC time making actual decisions in an operational environment.
Don’t be that guy that does all of that for free. That is just disgusting. You will hurt our profession even more.
Honestly if you want to go up with some friends or people you know and help them out, that’s fine, and I could care less.
Just don’t advertise on Av Canada that you are a free Co-Pilot. It’s just tasteless and you are asking to be roasted.
What kind of experience do you actually have? My guess is you probably only did Max Sim training, and you only have the bare min 2000 hours for AC. You probably sat right seat in a Dash for a few years at Jazz after you left Seneca. You probably have no real experience outside of 705, and you have zero PIC time making actual decisions in an operational environment.
Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
Professionals don't work for free. And where does the freebie train continue? Next contract? Return of pay 2 fly?Sharklasers wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:47 amI agree that the post is sort of in poor taste given the timing but do you honestly think that there is no value in flying around with an experienced professional pilot even if only to experience a different perspective? This isn’t 200 hour Timmy we are talking about offering to fly the Navajo charters for free. There is great value in doing some flying with a person who has worked and seen the outside of the circuit.
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Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
Yeah ^ not a good thing to do to the industry. I get it, you are bored and wanna help.
Cant you legally teach IFR training since to teach IFR all you need to do is be competent? Do that but charge an average rate, help future pilots and you dont [really] steal jobs.
Cant you legally teach IFR training since to teach IFR all you need to do is be competent? Do that but charge an average rate, help future pilots and you dont [really] steal jobs.
(9) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of an instrument rating shall be the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence or an Airline Transport Pilot Licence, have an instrument rating and:
(amended 2006/12/14)
(a) have a flight instructor rating; or
(amended 2006/12/14)
(b) have experience of not less than 500 hours pilot-in-command flight time, of which:
(amended 2006/12/14)
(i) not less than 100 hours shall be on the applicable aircraft group, and
(amended 1998/03/23)
(ii) in the case of Group I aircraft, not less than 10 hours shall be on the type of multi-engine aeroplane used for the training.
(amended 1998/03/23)
Re: YYC Co-Pilot Available 8000 hrs TT
I used to think the same way guys. I haven’t been on this site for over 10 years & I am disappointed to see that nothing has changed. I would have killed to fly with an experienced airline pilot when I was starting out. Just thought I could help somebody out in exchange for a ride in a C-172. No worries gentlemen, the post will be deleted, good luck with your careers. Adios Amigos
Last edited by mukluk on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: YYC Co-Pilot Available
Even if you delete this post, you'll still have 2 left
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: YYC Co-Pilot Available
I don't see the issue
This doesn't sound like instruction or offering any service. Some guy out time building gets an experienced tag along, swap some stories, build some community among pilots at different stages, give back a bit in mentoring an up and comer...
This doesn't sound like instruction or offering any service. Some guy out time building gets an experienced tag along, swap some stories, build some community among pilots at different stages, give back a bit in mentoring an up and comer...
Re: ***Disregard***
Generally, I favour mentoring (or I wouldn't be typing much here), and in spirit, going for a ride along with a good intent is a nice thing. However, when doing so could have the appearance of having been the result of "advertising", and "offering experience", there can be challenges. Those challenges, experienced by me first hand, and also by friends, have made me very cautious.
If you are the more experienced pilot aboard, and more to the point, there for that reason, you may find yourself "responsible" where that was not what you intended. I've had owners sign hold harmless letters before I flew with them, and twice, that proved to be a good idea. One of those times I was still determined to be PIC, though not flying the plane when it went bad.
I had another friend (yes, a real person, real friend) who just wanted to help a new owner out, and go for a check flight. Well, didn't the two of them run it out of gas, and then my friend finds out that the other pilot was not licensed. Now my friend is PIC of an uninsured wrecked plane he was not flying - what's in it for him?
If you're "mentoring", or even just riding along, what if you truly do not feel safe, and/or, you and other pilot disagree about something? It's awkward, 'better have prearranged it well! 'Ever had to suddenly take, when you never intended to have to, because the other pilot said at the worst moment: "Here, you do it!". It's happened to me too many times, and it's not a good feeling.
I've had a lot of wonderful experiences mentoring pilots. In hind sight, the best ones were those for which I was insured to fly that plane, and definitely not the PIC. After a recent experience, I will now only ride along as a simple passenger, or as a formal flight training exercise fully within the rules - no fuzzy lines, it's not worth it.
If you are the more experienced pilot aboard, and more to the point, there for that reason, you may find yourself "responsible" where that was not what you intended. I've had owners sign hold harmless letters before I flew with them, and twice, that proved to be a good idea. One of those times I was still determined to be PIC, though not flying the plane when it went bad.
I had another friend (yes, a real person, real friend) who just wanted to help a new owner out, and go for a check flight. Well, didn't the two of them run it out of gas, and then my friend finds out that the other pilot was not licensed. Now my friend is PIC of an uninsured wrecked plane he was not flying - what's in it for him?
If you're "mentoring", or even just riding along, what if you truly do not feel safe, and/or, you and other pilot disagree about something? It's awkward, 'better have prearranged it well! 'Ever had to suddenly take, when you never intended to have to, because the other pilot said at the worst moment: "Here, you do it!". It's happened to me too many times, and it's not a good feeling.
I've had a lot of wonderful experiences mentoring pilots. In hind sight, the best ones were those for which I was insured to fly that plane, and definitely not the PIC. After a recent experience, I will now only ride along as a simple passenger, or as a formal flight training exercise fully within the rules - no fuzzy lines, it's not worth it.
Re: YYC Free!! Experienced Co-Pilot!
He isn’t offering flight instruction, so no problem there.Dronepiper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:12 am There are multiple businesses that provide flight instruction, coaching, or safety pilot services.
Don’t be that guy that does all of that for free. That is just disgusting. You will hurt our profession even more.
As for coaching and safety pilot services, who cares? If a coaching service can’t differentiate its offerings from those of a bored airline pilot they had no viable product to offer anyways. If someone feels the need to hire a safety pilot what they are actually in need of, with limited exceptions, is further instruction.
What is being offered is mentorship, an invaluable contribution to learning within a profession. If piloting aircraft is the profession you speak of, stronger individual pilots make for a healthier whole. This is accomplished through formal/structured instruction and informal/non-structured mentorship, as offered here. If he hurts the “profession” of low-talent for hire pilot coaches in the process all the better; most are scum anyways.
Good on you Mukluk. I do think you should heed PilotDAR’s advice if you decide to go forward with this. CYA!