Hey everyone,
I am looking to purchase a C150 for some flying around the patch. However, I am a complete new to ownership and would appreciate any advice on what to budget for, and how much. I want to consider a purchase with full knowledge of what things cost as to avoid surprises down the line.
Please share whatever you think might be of value. Thanks!
C150 budget
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highupabove
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Re: C150 budget
The question is fair and wise, the answer is variable, and more affected by changes in parts availability and recommended service recently. I've owned my 150M for 33 years now, and am totally happy to have it. My example of operating costs is a little unrepresentative though, as I keep it at home, and do most of the labour for the maintenance myself.
So, you must consider the tiedown/hangarage costs, as well as insurance, which will be variable based upon your location, and flying.
The direct operating costs will be gas (which may be Mogas), $30 - $60 per hour, depending on what gas, and what type of flying (circuits vs cross country). Oil a few dollars an hour, they all burn some.
Annual maintenance cost for a 150 in good condition should be $1000 to $2000, but on top of that, you have to allow some reserves: Engine; Cylinder work - $3 per hour, Engine lower end (the main case) - $5 hour (though you might not bear the cost during ownership, that's coming off the value when you sell it - engines are consumable, Engine accessories (starter/alternator/vacuum pump/mags/plugs) $3 per hour.
Paint/interior/avionics may cost you little, if they're decent when you buy, and stay okay, but could cost. ELT $1 per hour.
Tires and brakes have costs, depending upon how gently you handle the plane, and the oleo has some long term maintenance cost, though again, if you ground handle it gently, and it's in decent shape, it may not require work for a while. Oleo/torque links/shimmy damper $500 - $1000 to rebuild if needed. The prop should be very low cost - unless you damage it. If you get the tips into the gravel, and it's close to limits already, you could suddenly by looking for a new one - used $2500, new $5000+. My prop was close to limits 33 years ago when I bought the plane, so I took good care of it, and operated with great care, and it's still close to limits 3000 hours later!
Then there are the unexpected inspections and repairs. Familiarize yourself with the "SID" inspections. Though they are not mandatory, they are wise to consider. Do not dismiss them ans don't have to do. The simple condition of the plane may dictate you have to do them. The 150 series is on of the few Cessna models not presently affected by major structure inspections required by AD. For my experience, if Cessna says to inspect, you should. Their recent service letters requiring inspections have merit. I've done some of these inspections on various Cessna models as specified by the service letters, and found defects on some planes, which made everyone very happy we'd looked. As I say, the 150 is very low cost compared to other Cessna models, and my experience with the robustness of the airframe gives me confidence in the type.
Owner maintenance is available for all 150's other than the 1975/76&77 M models. OM has pluses and minuses, so must be wisely considered. It works for me, and my other plane is OM. I would like to put my 150 in that system too, but it's an M, and excluded.
Lastly, don't overlook random fees like Nav Canada and landing fees, they're not nothing. When I fly my 150, I budget $75 per hour, however, I do not have direct tiedown costs, and maintenance costs are hidden in my labour.
Those are most of the things to think about, but there could always be something else. Always have a good pre purchae inspection done, so you know of any corrosion, modifications, unapproved/wrongs parts installed, or cracks or damage. Airplane ownership is wonderful, if you buy wisely, maintain the plane - and use it! If it sits, it costs you more than using it!
So, you must consider the tiedown/hangarage costs, as well as insurance, which will be variable based upon your location, and flying.
The direct operating costs will be gas (which may be Mogas), $30 - $60 per hour, depending on what gas, and what type of flying (circuits vs cross country). Oil a few dollars an hour, they all burn some.
Annual maintenance cost for a 150 in good condition should be $1000 to $2000, but on top of that, you have to allow some reserves: Engine; Cylinder work - $3 per hour, Engine lower end (the main case) - $5 hour (though you might not bear the cost during ownership, that's coming off the value when you sell it - engines are consumable, Engine accessories (starter/alternator/vacuum pump/mags/plugs) $3 per hour.
Paint/interior/avionics may cost you little, if they're decent when you buy, and stay okay, but could cost. ELT $1 per hour.
Tires and brakes have costs, depending upon how gently you handle the plane, and the oleo has some long term maintenance cost, though again, if you ground handle it gently, and it's in decent shape, it may not require work for a while. Oleo/torque links/shimmy damper $500 - $1000 to rebuild if needed. The prop should be very low cost - unless you damage it. If you get the tips into the gravel, and it's close to limits already, you could suddenly by looking for a new one - used $2500, new $5000+. My prop was close to limits 33 years ago when I bought the plane, so I took good care of it, and operated with great care, and it's still close to limits 3000 hours later!
Then there are the unexpected inspections and repairs. Familiarize yourself with the "SID" inspections. Though they are not mandatory, they are wise to consider. Do not dismiss them ans don't have to do. The simple condition of the plane may dictate you have to do them. The 150 series is on of the few Cessna models not presently affected by major structure inspections required by AD. For my experience, if Cessna says to inspect, you should. Their recent service letters requiring inspections have merit. I've done some of these inspections on various Cessna models as specified by the service letters, and found defects on some planes, which made everyone very happy we'd looked. As I say, the 150 is very low cost compared to other Cessna models, and my experience with the robustness of the airframe gives me confidence in the type.
Owner maintenance is available for all 150's other than the 1975/76&77 M models. OM has pluses and minuses, so must be wisely considered. It works for me, and my other plane is OM. I would like to put my 150 in that system too, but it's an M, and excluded.
Lastly, don't overlook random fees like Nav Canada and landing fees, they're not nothing. When I fly my 150, I budget $75 per hour, however, I do not have direct tiedown costs, and maintenance costs are hidden in my labour.
Those are most of the things to think about, but there could always be something else. Always have a good pre purchae inspection done, so you know of any corrosion, modifications, unapproved/wrongs parts installed, or cracks or damage. Airplane ownership is wonderful, if you buy wisely, maintain the plane - and use it! If it sits, it costs you more than using it!
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: C150 budget
my 02 cents
Buy off the very top of the market. That is one that has good paint, interior, modern digital radios, and most importantly a strong engine with a good maintenance history and which has had regular use. However airplane ownership is a crap shoot. The day after you buy the airplane the engine could suffer an event that requires an overhaul. With a rental plane you throw the keys on the desk and walk out, if it is your airplane you write a cheque for $ 25,000
I have a lot of respect for pilot DAR but he is extremely knowledgeable about owning and running aircraft and can do a lot of work himself. If you are getting an AME to do the work then I would suggest a more reasonable number for annual inspection is $3000 and up. There is always stuff to fix when you open up the airplane. Insurance will run you around $1200 a year and at my airport tie down is $ 100 a month. So we are at a minimum of $5400 a year and we have not put any gas in it. Fly 50 hours a year, which is a pretty common utilization rate for small private aircraft, and that would be a about $2500 for gas and oil and minor misc charges. So total is $ 7900 or $ 158 per hour. This is the absolute best case. Anything that needs a repair and the cost goes up and there will almost always be something that needs attention at some point during the year. I have owned a Grumman AA1B for twenty years. The best year I only spent $100 dollars for repairs, the worst year was $8700 for 4 new cylinders
The bottom line is as a general rule owning your own airplane will cost more per hour then renting, however there are many benefits to owning including having the freedom to just jump in and go,not having to worry about getting the aircraft back in time for the next renter, no minimum charges etc etc
Personally I think the sweet spot for ownership is a 2 person partnership. All the fixed costs for you are now cut in half and in practice there will almost never be a conflict over use.
If you do see an airplane you like get a prebuy inspection done by an AME who is not associated in any way with the seller. Be prepared to spend at least $500 for the labour to really go through the airplane and its paperwork.
Finally I posted the following story awhile ago on another thread about a fellow who tried to buy a cheap airplane to build time. He was unlucky but his story is not unique.
This is the story of a fellow I met once that bought a beater C 150 with an on condition engine to use to build up his time. He bought it for "only" 18 K but after about 20 hours the engine started running very roughly. When the AME pulled the screen it was full of metal, the engine was toast. His AME found another high time engine but the engine mount was cracked and the carb air box needed a repair etc etc. He was lucky in that it only cost him 10 K to get back in the air (an overhauled engine installed would have been over 20 K), then his radio died and the radio shop said it was too old to repair. He got another unit off E-bay but it never worked, then he lucked out and found a working unit for $1000 but he lost a month of summer flying screwing around, then he needed a new shimmy damper, then new brake discs, then a new elevator trim cable.........He finally finished his CPL and then tried to sell his airplane. A year later it was still for sale and he was desperate so he took a low ball 12 K just to get some money back. Bottom line when all his costs were totaled each hour he flew the aircraft coat him 295 $ an hour plus what he paid for his instructor........
Buy off the very top of the market. That is one that has good paint, interior, modern digital radios, and most importantly a strong engine with a good maintenance history and which has had regular use. However airplane ownership is a crap shoot. The day after you buy the airplane the engine could suffer an event that requires an overhaul. With a rental plane you throw the keys on the desk and walk out, if it is your airplane you write a cheque for $ 25,000
I have a lot of respect for pilot DAR but he is extremely knowledgeable about owning and running aircraft and can do a lot of work himself. If you are getting an AME to do the work then I would suggest a more reasonable number for annual inspection is $3000 and up. There is always stuff to fix when you open up the airplane. Insurance will run you around $1200 a year and at my airport tie down is $ 100 a month. So we are at a minimum of $5400 a year and we have not put any gas in it. Fly 50 hours a year, which is a pretty common utilization rate for small private aircraft, and that would be a about $2500 for gas and oil and minor misc charges. So total is $ 7900 or $ 158 per hour. This is the absolute best case. Anything that needs a repair and the cost goes up and there will almost always be something that needs attention at some point during the year. I have owned a Grumman AA1B for twenty years. The best year I only spent $100 dollars for repairs, the worst year was $8700 for 4 new cylinders
The bottom line is as a general rule owning your own airplane will cost more per hour then renting, however there are many benefits to owning including having the freedom to just jump in and go,not having to worry about getting the aircraft back in time for the next renter, no minimum charges etc etc
Personally I think the sweet spot for ownership is a 2 person partnership. All the fixed costs for you are now cut in half and in practice there will almost never be a conflict over use.
If you do see an airplane you like get a prebuy inspection done by an AME who is not associated in any way with the seller. Be prepared to spend at least $500 for the labour to really go through the airplane and its paperwork.
Finally I posted the following story awhile ago on another thread about a fellow who tried to buy a cheap airplane to build time. He was unlucky but his story is not unique.
This is the story of a fellow I met once that bought a beater C 150 with an on condition engine to use to build up his time. He bought it for "only" 18 K but after about 20 hours the engine started running very roughly. When the AME pulled the screen it was full of metal, the engine was toast. His AME found another high time engine but the engine mount was cracked and the carb air box needed a repair etc etc. He was lucky in that it only cost him 10 K to get back in the air (an overhauled engine installed would have been over 20 K), then his radio died and the radio shop said it was too old to repair. He got another unit off E-bay but it never worked, then he lucked out and found a working unit for $1000 but he lost a month of summer flying screwing around, then he needed a new shimmy damper, then new brake discs, then a new elevator trim cable.........He finally finished his CPL and then tried to sell his airplane. A year later it was still for sale and he was desperate so he took a low ball 12 K just to get some money back. Bottom line when all his costs were totaled each hour he flew the aircraft coat him 295 $ an hour plus what he paid for his instructor........
Re: C150 budget
We (3 families) have a late model 150. Last year we spent $8k on maintenance but flew 160 hrs air time. We needed 2 new mufflers, windshield, and heading indicator.
Insurance is $1700 insured for $40k with 4 student pilots on the policy. Before the new engine (value $20k) and student pilots we spent $850 on the policy.
Tie down $750.
Engine overhaul 2 years ago was $27k including new mags, cylinders.
Don’t ever run Mogas in your plane. What you save on fuel you’ll pay on maintenance.
You can spend less on maintenance than we do but eventually it will all come due. The windshield and Hi we could have deferred but eventually you have to pay the piper.
When buying, if the seller tells you that his annuals are only $1000/yr, you know he’s been skimping or deferring and you need to consider that your first annual will be huge.
I’m also a fan of higher time regularly maintained airplanes. Barely flown airplanes will have lots of timed out parts fail as soon as they’re regularly flown.
Insurance is $1700 insured for $40k with 4 student pilots on the policy. Before the new engine (value $20k) and student pilots we spent $850 on the policy.
Tie down $750.
Engine overhaul 2 years ago was $27k including new mags, cylinders.
Don’t ever run Mogas in your plane. What you save on fuel you’ll pay on maintenance.
You can spend less on maintenance than we do but eventually it will all come due. The windshield and Hi we could have deferred but eventually you have to pay the piper.
When buying, if the seller tells you that his annuals are only $1000/yr, you know he’s been skimping or deferring and you need to consider that your first annual will be huge.
I’m also a fan of higher time regularly maintained airplanes. Barely flown airplanes will have lots of timed out parts fail as soon as they’re regularly flown.
Re: C150 budget
My experience has been very different. I've flown about 4500 hours entirely trouble free on Mogas, of which about 3000 has been on my 150M. Yes, the exhaust is more sooty, but less fouling and poisonous. I have never had a maintenance issue which I could attribute to Mogas use, which I would not have had in an O-200 running Avgas. I'm certainly aware that O-200's do not entirely agree with (still heavily leaded) Avgas. We tested Mogas in most Continental (and a few Lycoming) engines, up to a carburetted 520, with good outcomes. Good maintenance experience, coupled with lower fuel cost, and Mogas emissions being less harmful to the environment, and I'm okay with it.Don’t ever run Mogas in your plane. What you save on fuel you’ll pay on maintenance.
Some of my Mogas flying and testing in the mid '80's resulted in information and experience which was included in Transport Canada TP10737, which is guidance on Mogas use in planes. Bear in mind that the O-200 was originally intended to be run on the old 80/87 Avgas, which was the perfect fuel for that engine - as it contained trace, if any lead at all. As that fuel was replaced with the still highly leaded 100LL as a compromise single fuel for piston powered aircraft, the low compression piston engines were subjected to much more lead than they needed, or were designed to digest, and lead fouling issues arose. Not horrendous, but enough to put me off, when Mogas was a choice. I know that there are people who prefer Avgas, and that's certainly their choice, but that opinion is not universal.
Re: C150 budget
This is true for just about every piston single flying today, short of the Rotax-powered LSA's. Continental, Lycoming, Franklin, etc. were all developed to run on 80/87.PilotDAR wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:06 pmBear in mind that the O-200 was originally intended to be run on the old 80/87 Avgas, which was the perfect fuel for that engine - as it contained trace, if any lead at all. As that fuel was replaced with the still highly leaded 100LL as a compromise single fuel for piston powered aircraft, the low compression piston engines were subjected to much more lead than they needed, or were designed to digest, and lead fouling issues arose.
Re: C150 budget
Well, not really... Many of the larger Continental and Lycoming engines specify a minimum of 100 octane. Indeed a few were born to run 115/145 (purple), but were transitioned to 100/130 (green), before both those fuels were replaced with 100LL (blue). I can assure you (having done the testing) that higher compression (8.5:1 and greater engines) will not operate satisfactorily on 80/87, and have no approval to do so... I used 80/87 as the "low octane" test fuel to intentionally cause detonation, to prove I could measure it, while doing testing on an 8.5:1 compression Continental 520 to run on premium Mogas.Continental, Lycoming, Franklin, etc. were all developed to run on 80/87.
You gotta use the specified fuels, lower octane will get you in trouble very quickly, at the worst possible time in the flight.
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highupabove
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Re: C150 budget
Thanks everyone, this has been incredibly insightful and valuable.
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Squaretail
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Re: C150 budget
Its all about utilization. For most owners its the fixed costs that are a killer: Annuals, insurance, parking/hangarage, repairs. Depending on the plane I figure one has to plan to fly at least 50 hours a year to break even vs renting. That's a lot more flying than most PPL holders do per year, the average PPL pilot does about 30hr/year as I recall.The bottom line is as a general rule owning your own airplane will cost more per hour then renting, however there are many benefits to owning including having the freedom to just jump in and go,not having to worry about getting the aircraft back in time for the next renter, no minimum charges etc etc
Owning of course is a great thing, if you feel you just got to do it and just love airplanes. I am without an airplane at the moment, and its an itch at the back of my mind.
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
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co-joe
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Re: C150 budget
My only experience with auto gas in a 150 is that carb ice is much more of an issue than with 100LL. Otherwise it ran great, and developed the same power. I loved the 150 to fly. I found it more fun than a 172.
Re: C150 budget
Here is a link to the Cessna 150 - 152 Owner's Club regarding cost of ownership: https://cessna150152club.org/Costs
Hangar it! Yes it is a cost but worth it. Don't leave it outside year-round exposed to the elements. There is a big difference in the general condition of aircraft stored outside versus aircraft stored inside. If you are serious about buying a used Cessna 150, start looking for hangar space now. Space may not easy to come by, plus you may be nonplussed to find wide-spread non-aviation uses of aircraft hangar space, such as RV's, motor-homes, trailers, boats, etc.
Hangar it! Yes it is a cost but worth it. Don't leave it outside year-round exposed to the elements. There is a big difference in the general condition of aircraft stored outside versus aircraft stored inside. If you are serious about buying a used Cessna 150, start looking for hangar space now. Space may not easy to come by, plus you may be nonplussed to find wide-spread non-aviation uses of aircraft hangar space, such as RV's, motor-homes, trailers, boats, etc.
