SFU facial hair study

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mixturerich
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by mixturerich »

We all know the only reason they started allowing beards at the airlines is to cover up all the baby faces :lol:
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Redmud
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by Redmud »

Since we are on the subject of facial hair - I have often wondered how the RCAF handles the religious minorities such as Muslims and Sikhs who serve in our Armed Forces. Are they exempted from these regulations under a religious right to wear turbans, long hair, full beards, beards with no mustaches etc? Or, are they required to be held to the same standard? Could somebody from the RCAF clarify? I am asking out of curiosity - not trying to stir the nest.
Thanks.
Red
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JBI
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by JBI »

Redmud wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am Since we are on the subject of facial hair - I have often wondered how the RCAF handles the religious minorities such as Muslims and Sikhs who serve in our Armed Forces. Are they exempted from these regulations under a religious right to wear turbans, long hair, full beards, beards with no mustaches etc? Or, are they required to be held to the same standard? Could somebody from the RCAF clarify? I am asking out of curiosity - not trying to stir the nest.
Thanks.
Red
I am not RCAF so can't advise on the specific policies. However, in these types of situations, the Canadian Charter and the Federal Human Rights Act would apply in the manner that: You need to accommodate up to the point of undue hardship. "Undue Hardship" ends up being a legal premise that courts have tried to interpret throughout past decisions and it may not be the same result for each position.

Undue Hardship can change as well. It used to be that Sikh's were permitted to bring their Kirpan on commercial aircraft (small ceremonial knife generally having the same type of significance as a Christian wearing a Cross except that it's mandated in their religion) then for a while it was banned but now it's permitted again as long as it's less than 6cm (but not to US destinations)

Very generally, courts have found that when it comes to safety of others and government equipment, that tends to override policies that could discriminate on any of the grounds enumerated in the Charter. So for example, saying someone who is blind can't get a pilot's licence is discrimination (you are saying someone isn't allowed to do something because of a physical disability) BUT, it's permitted because the safety issues that would result if vision-impaired person was operating an aircraft.

So I imagine that for the religious minorities, if the person isn't in a position that requires safety helmets, masks, specific hours they are permitted to follow their religious requirements. For aircraft helmets, safety gear, masks etc., I imagine that those situations trump the wearing of such articles or having a very long beard.
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Gannet167
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by Gannet167 »

Redmud wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am Since we are on the subject of facial hair - I have often wondered how the RCAF handles the religious minorities such as Muslims and Sikhs who serve in our Armed Forces. Are they exempted from these regulations under a religious right to wear turbans, long hair, full beards, beards with no mustaches etc? Or, are they required to be held to the same standard? Could somebody from the RCAF clarify? I am asking out of curiosity - not trying to stir the nest.
Thanks.
Red
5.THE DIRECTION PERTAINING TO THE TRIMMING OF A BEARD AT PARA 5
ABOVE DOES NOT APPLY TO CAF MEMBERS WHO ARE EXEMPT, FOR MEDICAL
REASONS, FROM SHAVING THE LOWER NECK OR CHEECKBONES
6.THIS CANFORGEN DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, MODIFY THE RELIGIOUS AND ...
SPIRITUAL ACCOMODATIONS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3 OF REF C

The new policy permitting beards doesn't change the existing policy that permitted them (and braided ponytail etc for aboriginal peoples, yarmulke, turbans, etc etc) for anyone on a religious basis. That policy has been around for a long time. I don't know of any religion that requires a beard but doesn't permit a moustache.
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Gannet167
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by Gannet167 »

JBI wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:22 am So I imagine that for the religious minorities, if the person isn't in a position that requires safety helmets, masks, specific hours they are permitted to follow their religious requirements. For aircraft helmets, safety gear, masks etc., I imagine that those situations trump the wearing of such articles or having a very long beard.
The policy (the one I posted above) says you can wear a beard, unless it's a functional requirement to shave - ie for wearing a chemical/nuclear/bio warfare mas operationally, or in training. That restriction should be temporary until no longer required:

COMMANDERS OF COMMANDS, TASK FORCE COMMANDERS
AND COMMANDING OFFICERS RETAIN THE RIGHT TO ORDER RESTRICTIONS ON
THE WEARING OF A BEARD TO MEET SAFETY AND OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
THIS INCLUDES RESTRICTIONS PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS AND TRAINING
WHERE, IN A CHEMICAL BIOLOGICAL RADIOLOGICAL NUCLEAR (CBRN)
ENVIRONMENT OR CBRN TRAINING ENVIRONMENT, A BEARD CAN BE ORDERED TO
BE REMOVED TO ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION ON OPERATIONS OR TRAINING...
SUCH RESTRICTIONS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS FEASIBLE (E.G. AS LONG AS
THE ENTIRE DURATION OF AN OPERATIONAL TOUR IN A CBRN ENVIRONMENT OR
AS SHORT AS A SINGLE TRAINING DAY FOR CBRN OPERATIONS). WHERE
CURRENT CAF EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES CANNOT ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION OR
THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY EMPLOY SAFETY SYSTEMS WHILE WEARING A
BEARD, BEARD RESTRICTIONS FOR MEMBERS USING THAT EQUIPMENT FOR
OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY REASONS MAY BE PUT IN PLACE BY A COMMANDING
OFFICER
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JBI
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by JBI »

Gannet167 wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:14 am

The policy (the one I posted above) says you can wear a beard, unless it's a functional requirement to shave - ie for wearing a chemical/nuclear/bio warfare mas operationally, or in training. That restriction should be temporary until no longer required:
Thanks for sharing and clarifying
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Redmud
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by Redmud »

Thanks for the interesting info.
Red
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A-Team
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by A-Team »

SFU was kind enough to provide me with the abstract from their research. They offered the full technical report as well but this is sufficient for me.
The Efficacy of Oxygen Delivery Masks for Commercial Pilots with Facial Hair

P.I. Sherri Ferguson, Director Environmental Medicine and Physiology Unit, SFU Faculty of Science (data collection, protocol development)

Co-P.I. Dan Warkander, SFU Visiting Faculty, Faculty of Science, & University of Buffalo – Center for Research and Education in Special Environments. (protocol
development)

Faculty Supervisor: Sam Doesburg, Biomedical Physiology and Kinesiology, SFU

Collaborator: Evan Hutcheon, MSc. Candidate. (data collection, report writing)

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:
The current policies in Canada for commercial pilots to be clean shaven is based on outdated research done in the 1970’s. Some countries allow commercial pilots to operate commercial aircraft with a beard; however, no research has been done on current equipment and its efficacy with a bearded user. This study looked at the efficacy of two masks currently in use on commercial aircraft with bearded users.

METHODS: We measured participants different beard lengths (i.e. <0.5cm, 0.5-12.5cm, and >12.5cm). We then tested the masks at 4 altitudes (i.e. 10,000 ft, 17,000 ft, 20,000 ft, 25,000 ft) and whether they protected against noxious gas exposure (i.e. stannic chloride).

RESULTS: We found that that all participants were unable to detect the noxious gas while wearing a mask, and that none of the participants blood oxygen saturation levels dropped below 93%. Reassuringly, 27 participants had a lowest blood oxygen saturation level of 98% or greater, one participant’s lowest blood oxygenation level was 97%, and another participant had a lowest blood oxygen level of 93%.

DISCUSSION: The results of this study suggest that the current masks maintain efficacy for hypoxia prevention and ensure no inward air or fumes into the mask when used at altitudes up to 25,000’ even with a bearded user. Further testing should be done to determine the additional gas requirements if any when used in emergency mode to ensure sufficient autonomy in the worst case scenario. In addition testing should be done to determine adequate pressure can be achieved to protect against hypoxia at altitudes above 36,000’ ASL.
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twa22
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Re: SFU facial hair study

Post by twa22 »

A-Team wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:21 pm SFU was kind enough to provide me with the abstract from their research. They offered the full technical report as well but this is sufficient for me.
The Efficacy of Oxygen Delivery Masks for Commercial Pilots with Facial Hair

P.I. Sherri Ferguson, Director Environmental Medicine and Physiology Unit, SFU Faculty of Science (data collection, protocol development)

Co-P.I. Dan Warkander, SFU Visiting Faculty, Faculty of Science, & University of Buffalo – Center for Research and Education in Special Environments. (protocol
development)

Faculty Supervisor: Sam Doesburg, Biomedical Physiology and Kinesiology, SFU

Collaborator: Evan Hutcheon, MSc. Candidate. (data collection, report writing)

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:
The current policies in Canada for commercial pilots to be clean shaven is based on outdated research done in the 1970’s. Some countries allow commercial pilots to operate commercial aircraft with a beard; however, no research has been done on current equipment and its efficacy with a bearded user. This study looked at the efficacy of two masks currently in use on commercial aircraft with bearded users.

METHODS: We measured participants different beard lengths (i.e. <0.5cm, 0.5-12.5cm, and >12.5cm). We then tested the masks at 4 altitudes (i.e. 10,000 ft, 17,000 ft, 20,000 ft, 25,000 ft) and whether they protected against noxious gas exposure (i.e. stannic chloride).

RESULTS: We found that that all participants were unable to detect the noxious gas while wearing a mask, and that none of the participants blood oxygen saturation levels dropped below 93%. Reassuringly, 27 participants had a lowest blood oxygen saturation level of 98% or greater, one participant’s lowest blood oxygenation level was 97%, and another participant had a lowest blood oxygen level of 93%.

DISCUSSION: The results of this study suggest that the current masks maintain efficacy for hypoxia prevention and ensure no inward air or fumes into the mask when used at altitudes up to 25,000’ even with a bearded user. Further testing should be done to determine the additional gas requirements if any when used in emergency mode to ensure sufficient autonomy in the worst case scenario. In addition testing should be done to determine adequate pressure can be achieved to protect against hypoxia at altitudes above 36,000’ ASL.
Excellent, thank you for this info

Cheers
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