SFU facial hair study

[A-Team]

Hi, would anyone have a copy of the actual study conducted by Simon Fraser University regarding facial hair and pilots? My co-worker calls beards “facial fungus” and is adamant that they’re unsafe and need to be banned from the workplace.

SFU study busts myth about facial hair on pilots: https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2018 ... lots-.html

[Heliian]

Your coworker is barking up the wrong tree. It has nothing to do with being sanitary, the reason for being clean shaven in the cockpit is for the proper fitment of the oxygen mask. A beard will also prevent the proper seal of an N95 mask or respirator.

[twa22]

Oh not this topic again...

It has nothing to do with proper seal, it has to do with stigma and mindset...only North American airlines had this no facial hair policy until recent years (aka since that study was published). I remember flying 10 years ago with Lufthansa and the captain had a full beard, neatly groomed.

Thankfully, airlines have come to their senses here as well and now allow facial hair that is neatly groomed

OP, unfortunately doing a quick google search, there doesn't seem to be any sort of files out there that actually has the full study

[GRK2]

It's a very old song...it also had (if memory serves) something to do with mustache wax and 100% O2 being a great combination of volatility. In other words whatever was in the wax didn't mix well with 100% O2 and could cause instant burning when they were mixed. Back when those mustaches were shaped by whatever wax was in use.

[Heliian]

It has nothing to do with proper seal,

As someone who does fit testing, I can guarantee you that a beard doesn't allow for the best seal, a full beard would actually fail the test.

As far as just regular oxygen delivery in a mask, it shouldn't be a problem. It's keeping contaminants out when wearing a mask that is, especially the full face versions.

It's really not worth fighting over though, if your company doesn't allow beards, just shave and be happy you have a job at the moment.

[AuxBatOn]

Your coworker is barking up the wrong tree. It has nothing to do with being sanitary, the reason for being clean shaven in the cockpit is for the proper fitment of the oxygen mask. A beard will also prevent the proper seal of an N95 mask or respirator.

BS. I wear an oxygen mask in every flight and a beard is totally fine. It is fine for demand system (such as the oxygen system in aircraft) or positive pressure systems but not for passive PPE (ie: it provides a seal with no positive pressure)

[twa22]

It has nothing to do with proper seal,

As someone who does fit testing, I can guarantee you that a beard doesn't allow for the best seal, a full beard would actually fail the test.

As far as just regular oxygen delivery in a mask, it shouldn't be a problem. It's keeping contaminants out when wearing a mask that is, especially the full face versions.

It's really not worth fighting over though, if your company doesn't allow beards, just shave and be happy you have a job at the moment.

Actually mine does allow one so i'm not complaining by any means and no one at my company has a problem with any one of my colleagues who has facial hair. Also, yes, I am extremely happy that I still have a job, facial hair aside, and I don't take that for granted for a millisecond

My comment was more so related to the OP being told it's facial fungus... that's frankly rude and it's no ones business to tell someone how to groom one self. Giving a reason that "it's unprofessional" is utter BS... I fail to see on what grounds one may actually feel that way; as in what logical reasoning makes a person with facial hair less "professional" then someone without. Yea, don't have a grizzly beard with bread crumbs all over it, obviously that's not "professional" in any job, let alone in aviation

So ok, you don't say it's unprofessional, but the next best excuse to not allow it is because "it doesn't seal properly" or in other words "we don't like facial hair, but we won't say that, we will just tell you it's for sealing reasons"

Follow the company policies are, if they say no, well, can't do much there but anyways, not something worth arguing over, as it's not really an issue these days.

[JBI]

Hi, would anyone have a copy of the actual study conducted by Simon Fraser University regarding facial hair and pilots? My co-worker calls beards “facial fungus” and is adamant that they’re unsafe and need to be banned from the workplace.

SFU study busts myth about facial hair on pilots: https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2018 ... lots-.html

I don't have a copy, but perhaps send an e-mail to the study's author and she may be able to help:

The Environmental Medicine and Physiology Unit
Sherri Ferguson, Director
Shrum Science Building, Room K8615
Faculty of Science
Simon Fraser University
8888 University Drive Burnaby
British Columbia, Canada V5A1S6
empu@sfu.ca

778-782-3782

[Heliian]

Your coworker is barking up the wrong tree. It has nothing to do with being sanitary, the reason for being clean shaven in the cockpit is for the proper fitment of the oxygen mask. A beard will also prevent the proper seal of an N95 mask or respirator.

BS. I wear an oxygen mask in every flight and a beard is totally fine. It is fine for demand system (such as the oxygen system in aircraft) or positive pressure systems but not for passive PPE (ie: it provides a seal with no positive pressure)

Yes, i agree that it won't be detrimental to oxygen flow, as I elaborated previously.

If you're in the airlines then you have access to the onboard equipment which includes the portable O2 with a full mask. Now with covid protection you have to wear an n95 at times, which needs a good seal on the face.

I have no opposition to beards and am in fact sporting a beard but have to shave it when "the man" tells me to.

[AuxBatOn]

Your coworker is barking up the wrong tree. It has nothing to do with being sanitary, the reason for being clean shaven in the cockpit is for the proper fitment of the oxygen mask. A beard will also prevent the proper seal of an N95 mask or respirator.

BS. I wear an oxygen mask in every flight and a beard is totally fine. It is fine for demand system (such as the oxygen system in aircraft) or positive pressure systems but not for passive PPE (ie: it provides a seal with no positive pressure)

Yes, i agree that it won't be detrimental to oxygen flow, as I elaborated previously.

If you're in the airlines then you have access to the onboard equipment which includes the portable O2 with a full mask. Now with covid protection you have to wear an n95 at times, which needs a good seal on the face.

I have no opposition to beards and am in fact sporting a beard but have to shave it when "the man" tells me to.

Is the mask for your protection or the protection of others? If for the protection of others, again, no issues really.

[DadoBlade]

Beards and moustaches stink. In Medieval times, beards were thought to protect the wearer's face from abrasions during fights. Like the myth of grey hair, beards could be seen as an indicator of wisdom, regardless of the idiocy of the wearer. In later eras, moustaches were seen as abbreviated beards for the dashing set, reserved for Earls, Lords and Viscounts. A superficial affectation that stinks. Literally.

[fishface]

Beards and moustaches stink. In Medieval times, beards were thought to protect the wearer's face from abrasions during fights. Like the myth of grey hair, beards could be seen as an indicator of wisdom, regardless of the idiocy of the wearer. In later eras, moustaches were seen as abbreviated beards for the dashing set, reserved for Earls, Lords and Viscounts. A superficial affectation that stinks. Literally.

Nobody cares.

[Gannet167]

Beards and moustaches stink. In Medieval times, beards were thought to protect the wearer's face from abrasions during fights. Like the myth of grey hair, beards could be seen as an indicator of wisdom, regardless of the idiocy of the wearer. In later eras, moustaches were seen as abbreviated beards for the dashing set, reserved for Earls, Lords and Viscounts. A superficial affectation that stinks. Literally.

I've had very good luck with using basic hygiene. Never failed me in fact.

If your beard smells, try washing. If you've been close enough to other men to smell their beards and found that the men you are smelling have stinky beards, I really don't know what to say. Either way, soap and water - excellent.

[A-Team]

Hi, would anyone have a copy of the actual study conducted by Simon Fraser University regarding facial hair and pilots? My co-worker calls beards “facial fungus” and is adamant that they’re unsafe and need to be banned from the workplace.

SFU study busts myth about facial hair on pilots: https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2018 ... lots-.html

I don't have a copy, but perhaps send an e-mail to the study's author and she may be able to help:

The Environmental Medicine and Physiology Unit
Sherri Ferguson, Director
Shrum Science Building, Room K8615
Faculty of Science
Simon Fraser University
8888 University Drive Burnaby
British Columbia, Canada V5A1S6
empu@sfu.ca

778-782-3782

E-mail request sent. Thank you. I tried their general contact earlier but no luck.

Our organisation doesn’t have any policy on the matter and other guys have moustaches and beards. This individual’s concern is strictly cabin depressurization at FL450. He is from a legacy generation of pilots with ultra conservative views in all aspects of life.

[Heliian]

BS. I wear an oxygen mask in every flight and a beard is totally fine. It is fine for demand system (such as the oxygen system in aircraft) or positive pressure systems but not for passive PPE (ie: it provides a seal with no positive pressure)

Yes, i agree that it won't be detrimental to oxygen flow, as I elaborated previously.

If you're in the airlines then you have access to the onboard equipment which includes the portable O2 with a full mask. Now with covid protection you have to wear an n95 at times, which needs a good seal on the face.

I have no opposition to beards and am in fact sporting a beard but have to shave it when "the man" tells me to.

Is the mask for your protection or the protection of others? If for the protection of others, again, no issues really.

Haha, why would I be trying to protect others? I also wear gloves when handling toxic chemicals.

[Gannet167]

I've worked with pilots from european and middle eastern air forces who were permitted to wear beards, while flying aircraft that required full time use of masks. They had no problems getting a seal. The RCAF has recently also permitted beards, including on aircraft that require wearing a mask full time. In these cases, the mask isn't merely a preventative item in case of a rapid decompression, it's worn full time as the primary source of O2 as the cockpit pressurization is inadequate to breathe ambient air at most altitudes. It's also the means to protect against smoke in the cockpit. It's also the source of emergency O2 if the primary system fails. Given the paranoid OCD and extremely restrictive regulations the RCAF has for anything in the cockpit, if a beard doesn't cause problems in these cases, it would be very hard to justify why a beard is problematic for donning an emergency mask in the even of a rapid decompression, or wearing one above 410 as a precaution.

[A-Team]

...The RCAF has recently also permitted beards, including on aircraft that require wearing a mask full time.

Interesting. I wonder what their policy is.

[Gannet167]

Full text of the CANFORGEN is below. The key takeaway is:

4.WHERE THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED:
A. IT SHALL BE WORN WITH A MOUSTACHE,
B. IT SHALL BE NEATLY TRIMMED, ESPECIALLY ON THE LOWER NECK AND
CHEEKBONES,
C. IT SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO CENTIMETERS IN BULK.

_________________

Full Text:

R 251819Z SEP 18
FM NDHQ CMP OTTAWA
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS
SECTION 1 OF 2
CANFORGEN 158/18 CMP 078/18
SIC WAC
BILINGUAL MESSAGE/MESSAGE BILINGUE
SUBJ: AMENDMENT TO BEARD POLICY
REFS:A.QR AND O 17.02
B. QR AND O 17.03
C. A-DH-265-000/AG-001 CHAPTER 2
1.PERSONAL DRESS AND APPEARANCE OF MILITARY MEMBERS REFLECT ON THE
PROFESSIONALISM AND CREDIBILITY OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES (CAF).
IN ACCORDANCE WITH QUEEN S REGULATIONS AND ORDERS
(QRO) 17.03 (REF B), THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS SUBJECT TO
RESTRICTIONS AS ORDERED BY THE CHIEF OF THE DEFENCE STAFF
2.CONSULTATIONS WERE HELD WITH CAF MEMBERS BY THE NATIONAL
​
​
PAGE 2 RCCPJAQ1040 UNCLAS
DEFENCE CLOTHING AND DRESS COMMITTEE (NDCDC) WHICH REVEALED CONCERNS
REGARDING THE EXISTING BEARD POLICY. IT BECAME APPARENT THAT THE
EXISTING POLICY IS BROADER THAN REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN OPERATIONAL
EFFECTIVENESS. CHANGES TO THE BEARD POLICY IN THIS
CANFORGEN CONTINUE TO RECOGNIZE BOTH THE NEED TO ENSURE FORCE
PROTECTION AND COMFORT TO MILITARY MEMBERS OVER A WIDE RANGE OF
OPERATIONAL AND CLIMATIC CONDITIONS WHILE ALSO SUPPORTING THE
COMPLETE SPECTRUM OF ACTIVITY FROM CEREMONIAL DUTIES TO COMBAT
OPERATIONS, WHILE ALLOWING CAF MEMBERS INCREASED FREEDOM TO MAKE
PERSONAL CHOICES REGARDING THEIR APPEARANCE
3.EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED FOR
ALL CAF MEMBERS UPON ATTAINMENT OF THEIR OPERATIONALLY FUNCTIONAL
POINT (OFP) OR HAVING COMPLETED DEVELOPMENTAL PERIOD ONE, WHICHEVER
COMES LAST. HOWEVER, COMMANDERS OF COMMANDS, TASK FORCE COMMANDERS
AND COMMANDING OFFICERS RETAIN THE RIGHT TO ORDER RESTRICTIONS ON
THE WEARING OF A BEARD TO MEET SAFETY AND OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
THIS INCLUDES RESTRICTIONS PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS AND TRAINING
WHERE, IN A CHEMICAL BIOLOGICAL RADIOLOGICAL NUCLEAR (CBRN)
ENVIRONMENT OR CBRN TRAINING ENVIRONMENT, A BEARD CAN BE ORDERED TO
BE REMOVED TO ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION ON OPERATIONS OR TRAINING.
​
​
PAGE 3 RCCPJAQ1040 UNCLAS
SUCH RESTRICTIONS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS FEASIBLE (E.G. AS LONG AS
THE ENTIRE DURATION OF AN OPERATIONAL TOUR IN A CBRN ENVIRONMENT OR
AS SHORT AS A SINGLE TRAINING DAY FOR CBRN OPERATIONS). WHERE
CURRENT CAF EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES CANNOT ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION OR
THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY EMPLOY SAFETY SYSTEMS WHILE WEARING A
BEARD, BEARD RESTRICTIONS FOR MEMBERS USING THAT EQUIPMENT FOR
OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY REASONS MAY BE PUT IN PLACE BY A COMMANDING
OFFICER
4.WHERE THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED:
A. IT SHALL BE WORN WITH A MOUSTACHE,
B. IT SHALL BE NEATLY TRIMMED, ESPECIALLY ON THE LOWER NECK AND
CHEEKBONES,
C. IT SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO CENTIMETERS IN BULK. A MEMBER WILL, ON
THEIR OWN ACCORD OR UPON DIRECTION FROM THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER OR
THEIR CO S DESIGNATE, SHAVE OFF UNSUCCESSFUL ATTEMPTS TO GROW A
BEARD.
5.THE DIRECTION PERTAINING TO THE TRIMMING OF A BEARD AT PARA 5
ABOVE DOES NOT APPLY TO CAF MEMBERS WHO ARE EXEMPT, FOR MEDICAL
REASONS, FROM SHAVING THE LOWER NECK OR CHEECKBONES
6.THIS CANFORGEN DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, MODIFY THE RELIGIOUS AND
​
​
PAGE 4 RCCPJAQ1040 UNCLAS
SPIRITUAL ACCOMODATIONS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3 OF REF C
7.THE INTENT OF THIS UPDATE TO THE POLICY IS TO ENSURE THE CAF
MAINTAIN OPERATIONAL CAPABILITIES, WHILE STRENGHENING ORGANIZATIONAL
MORALE AND TEAM COHESION
8.AN UPDATED REF C WILL BE PUBLISHED AT r/HTTP://CMP-CPM.MIL.CA/…/PUBLI…/CH2-POLI ... ARANCE.PDF
END OF ENGLISH TEXT

[A-Team]

Full text of the CANFORGEN is below. The key takeaway is:

4.WHERE THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED:
A. IT SHALL BE WORN WITH A MOUSTACHE,
B. IT SHALL BE NEATLY TRIMMED, ESPECIALLY ON THE LOWER NECK AND
CHEEKBONES,
C. IT SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO CENTIMETERS IN BULK.

Brilliant! Thank you!

[fish4life]

I believe Auxbat flies fighters for the RCAF and mentioned in this post his beard doesn’t cause an issue.