Traning bond or ... non flying job

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Saubia
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Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by Saubia »

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
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link821
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by link821 »

Prepare for roasting in...3...2...1
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lownslow
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by lownslow »

The nice thing is you sound like you have a number and will be called back to Jazz sooner or later. That means that you don’t have to look for a job for your resume so you can find something without a bond or at least with a cheap one.
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porcsord
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by porcsord »

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.
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digits_
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by digits_ »

porcsord wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:22 pm Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.
Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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rookiepilot
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by rookiepilot »

digits_ wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:35 pm
porcsord wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:22 pm Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.
Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.
I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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digits_
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:29 pm
digits_ wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:35 pm
porcsord wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:22 pm Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.
Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.
I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
How about you actually read the text you quote before you are shocked, and answer the question that is actually asked?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
gtappl
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by gtappl »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:29 pm
digits_ wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:35 pm
porcsord wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:22 pm Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.
Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.
I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You're making an ass of yourself. If they pay the bond that's their hands clean.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by Ash Ketchum »

Saubia wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 am Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
I would take whichever paid more and was closer to home. Unless you need the hours for ATPL.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by rookiepilot »

Sense of humour is lacking here....
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47north
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by 47north »

Saubia wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 am Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
Talk to your base chief pilot. You will be able to waive recall and the company would in all likelihood give you an LOA if you needed to stay and honour your contract. They have done that in the past.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by Eric Janson »

Saubia wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 am Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
There are no guarantees in this business - your position on the Jazz list is meaningless if they go under. Even if they survive it could easily be a few years until you get called back.

If you are fortunate enough to have found a flying job - take it!

Nobody can predict the future - make the choices that are right for you.

I've said it in a previous post - the name of the game is SURVIVAL. Nothing else. A lot of people still haven't understood this.

JMHO.
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Caterpillar
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by Caterpillar »

How about 703’s that refuse to recurrent crews unless they sign a new bond?

It just happened to my buddy (king air FO).

Fucking stupid industry.
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JBI
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by JBI »

Saubia wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 am Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!
It depends. Do you have your ATPL? How far down the seniority list are you? What's your money situation like? Do you have other skills? Do you need to stay in your current city for family, personal or financial reasons?

For those lower on the seniority list and experience levels, if you do want to keep flying as a career, I'd say it makes sense to find a flying job. Keep getting hours that you can use towards an ATPL and or experience for other jobs in the future. While my *guess* is that there will slowly be recalls in the industry, I do think that those at the bottom of various seniority lists will be on furlough for quite some time.

But, if family or financial issues trump the flying and/or you have some much more lucrative alternatives, I'd consider that. Also getting a back-up plan sorted for later in life could be helpful. I know lots of pilots who have worked on landscaping/construction/renos this summer and also know a few looking at online courses for now. All good options in the right situation.
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digits_
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by digits_ »

Caterpillar wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:09 pm How about 703’s that refuse to recurrent crews unless they sign a new bond?

It just happened to my buddy (king air FO).

Fucking stupid industry.
Not that it would help, but I believe that would be illegal, since there is no benefit to the employee. They can't force you to sign a new contract just for you to stay employed.

I'm sure some more legally educated people will chime in soon though.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Launchpad1
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by Launchpad1 »

Totally depends on your circumstances.

Personally, unless you know it's a good company, I wouldn't accept any bond that lasts for more than one year. If you don't know anyone who works there already and the company turns out to be run by @ssholes who treat you like garbage (happens a lot in 703) you can kind of suck it up for a year. Two years is to much though.
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The Hammer
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by The Hammer »

It depends how far down the list you are at Jazz. If you have a lot of people ahead of you then take the work. It could be years. I've seen it personally. Or you can talk to Jazz about a LOA. Often you c an delay your recall until your the most jr person on LOA/Layoff and then you have come back or be forced to resign.
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AWOS
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by AWOS »

Pretty sure the collective agreement at Jazz says that if they are to recall you while you have a contract or agreement with another employer, they can provide an LOA and that such a request shall not be unreasonably denied.
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47north
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by 47north »

AWOS wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:52 am Pretty sure the collective agreement at Jazz says that if they are to recall you while you have a contract or agreement with another employer, they can provide an LOA and that such a request shall not be unreasonably denied.
Yes it does:

.09 The Company may grant an LOA to any Pilot who is recalled but who is unable to
report for duty because of an employment contract. Such request shall not be unreasonably denied.
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North Shore
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Re: Traning bond or ... non flying job

Post by North Shore »

As I copied from my brother's Gr.8 German class many, many moons ago:
Besser den Spatz in der hand als die Taube auf dem Dach..
Or, 'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'

Take the damn job. Figure out what to do later when/if your recall comes
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