Traning bond or ... non flying job

[Saubia]

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!

[link821]

Prepare for roasting in...3...2...1

[lownslow]

The nice thing is you sound like you have a number and will be called back to Jazz sooner or later. That means that you don’t have to look for a job for your resume so you can find something without a bond or at least with a cheap one.

[porcsord]

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.

[digits_]

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.

Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.

[rookiepilot]

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.

Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.

I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

[digits_]

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.

Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.

I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

How about you actually read the text you quote before you are shocked, and answer the question that is actually asked?

[gtappl]

Or, how about ask for an LOA from Jazz and honor your agreement, and not be a dickhead and leave early. Just a thought.

Why are you a dickhead when you leave early and pay your bond? You're honoring the terms of your agreement.

Now getting hired, signing an X year bond with no intention of staying X year and no intention of paying, yes, then you are a dickhead.

I'm absolutely shocked by these comments.

Why is it wrong to just leave, not pay and screw over the company you made an agreement with. We know all these small businesses are total scumbags with rich asshole owners anyway and only get what they deserve. Every man for himself! Sabotage the equipment on the way out the door, too! Power to the people! Workers United!

Not like AC who only hires decent hard-working Canadians...at top wages just to walk in the door.

Oh wait.......

You're making an ass of yourself. If they pay the bond that's their hands clean.

[Ash Ketchum]

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!

I would take whichever paid more and was closer to home. Unless you need the hours for ATPL.

[rookiepilot]

Sense of humour is lacking here....

[47north]

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!

Talk to your base chief pilot. You will be able to waive recall and the company would in all likelihood give you an LOA if you needed to stay and honour your contract. They have done that in the past.

[Eric Janson]

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!

There are no guarantees in this business - your position on the Jazz list is meaningless if they go under. Even if they survive it could easily be a few years until you get called back.

If you are fortunate enough to have found a flying job - take it!

Nobody can predict the future - make the choices that are right for you.

I've said it in a previous post - the name of the game is SURVIVAL. Nothing else. A lot of people still haven't understood this.

JMHO.

[Caterpillar]

How about 703’s that refuse to recurrent crews unless they sign a new bond?

It just happened to my buddy (king air FO).

Fucking stupid industry.

[JBI]

Good evening,

I was at Jazz and laid off couple of months ago due to the covid situation. Just wondering if you should take the risk to go to a 703 operator and pay the training bond in case jazz call me back or... if I should wait with a non flying job.

Just asking your opinon.

thx for ur help!

It depends. Do you have your ATPL? How far down the seniority list are you? What's your money situation like? Do you have other skills? Do you need to stay in your current city for family, personal or financial reasons?

For those lower on the seniority list and experience levels, if you do want to keep flying as a career, I'd say it makes sense to find a flying job. Keep getting hours that you can use towards an ATPL and or experience for other jobs in the future. While my *guess* is that there will slowly be recalls in the industry, I do think that those at the bottom of various seniority lists will be on furlough for quite some time.

But, if family or financial issues trump the flying and/or you have some much more lucrative alternatives, I'd consider that. Also getting a back-up plan sorted for later in life could be helpful. I know lots of pilots who have worked on landscaping/construction/renos this summer and also know a few looking at online courses for now. All good options in the right situation.

[digits_]

How about 703’s that refuse to recurrent crews unless they sign a new bond?

It just happened to my buddy (king air FO).

Fucking stupid industry.

Not that it would help, but I believe that would be illegal, since there is no benefit to the employee. They can't force you to sign a new contract just for you to stay employed.

I'm sure some more legally educated people will chime in soon though.

[Launchpad1]

Totally depends on your circumstances.

Personally, unless you know it's a good company, I wouldn't accept any bond that lasts for more than one year. If you don't know anyone who works there already and the company turns out to be run by @ssholes who treat you like garbage (happens a lot in 703) you can kind of suck it up for a year. Two years is to much though.

[The Hammer]

It depends how far down the list you are at Jazz. If you have a lot of people ahead of you then take the work. It could be years. I've seen it personally. Or you can talk to Jazz about a LOA. Often you c an delay your recall until your the most jr person on LOA/Layoff and then you have come back or be forced to resign.

[AWOS]

Pretty sure the collective agreement at Jazz says that if they are to recall you while you have a contract or agreement with another employer, they can provide an LOA and that such a request shall not be unreasonably denied.

[47north]

Pretty sure the collective agreement at Jazz says that if they are to recall you while you have a contract or agreement with another employer, they can provide an LOA and that such a request shall not be unreasonably denied.

Yes it does:

.09 The Company may grant an LOA to any Pilot who is recalled but who is unable to
report for duty because of an employment contract. Such request shall not be unreasonably denied.

[North Shore]

As I copied from my brother's Gr.8 German class many, many moons ago:
Besser den Spatz in der hand als die Taube auf dem Dach..
Or, 'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'

Take the damn job. Figure out what to do later when/if your recall comes

[ChiefTraining]

A training bond is a waste of time. Unless you're very senior at Jazz, I wouldn't expect a call back to work for at least a year.
If you are receiving COVID pay (supplemented by Jazz) you are probably getting about the same as a 703 operator can afford to pay anyway, so unless you REALLY need the flight time, DON'T do it.

[Gear Jerker]

Lots of good advice earlier on (and some standard nonsensical avcanada rants - someone has to do it I guess??).

During these times of uncertainty, take the job if it is right for your situation. Still think in terms of the 1 year, 5 year, 25 year planning, but at the moment there's something to be said for just having a seat.

Ideally, no bond. Second best, promissory note. Third, a training bond. It may be a while before airlines can really scale back up their operations. If I were in your shoes, if its a good job (ie King Air captain making decent money at a decent company), I'd do it. Even if it means signing a bond. Just be open with the company about your situation.

Be sure to understand your CBA, and especially your recall rights and the potential impact of a deferral, and try to figure out some worst case/best case realistic timelines based on your own seniority.

Best of luck.

[KAG]

Take the job if its one you see yourself doing for a year or so.
you're not going to get called back soon anyway, and companies resume piles will just keep getting bigger with higher time pilots.

As for training bonds, if an employer tries to sneak one in on you during recurrent ask for an education tax receipt for CRA - that will get them off your back. Short answer they're not legal. A more civil approach would be to point out you're not going anywhere soon anyway.

Stay healthy, good luck all.

[47north]

If you are receiving COVID pay (supplemented by Jazz) you are probably getting about the same as a 703 operator can afford to pay anyway, so unless you REALLY need the flight time, DON'T do it.

And there lies a real problem with these support programs. People have the attitude that they have the right to collect CERB, CEWS or EI just because it ‘pays’ more.

I get that the government needed to quickly get money out to people that needed support. The unintended result is that people are now refusing to go back to work because they are getting CERB. No this is not ‘fake news’. I have personally been told this by many business owners that can’t get their employees to come back because the government pays more. A few have told me it is limiting their ability to get their business back to normal. Where my daughter works, people are refusing work or calling in sick regularly so their pay does not affect their CERB.

At the risk of sounding like an old fart, I would never have considered turning down a job to stay on government assistance. I have been out of work several times in this industry and sure I have collected EI for a few weeks here and there to get me through and I was grateful for that. I also vowed the last time to ‘self-insure’ so I didn’t have to rely on anything else. Ever since then I have at least 6 months of expenses in reserve just in case.

Where is people’s pride these day? Nobody owes you anything and I would never consider turning down any work that gets me off public assistance. But hey, I guess that’s just me.

Rant over....

[JohnnyHotRocks]

If you are receiving COVID pay (supplemented by Jazz) you are probably getting about the same as a 703 operator can afford to pay anyway, so unless you REALLY need the flight time, DON'T do it.

And there lies a real problem with these support programs. People have the attitude that they have the right to collect CERB, CEWS or EI just because it ‘pays’ more.

I get that the government needed to quickly get money out to people that needed support. The unintended result is that people are now refusing to go back to work because they are getting CERB. No this is not ‘fake news’. I have personally been told this by many business owners that can’t get their employees to come back because the government pays more. A few have told me it is limiting their ability to get their business back to normal. Where my daughter works, people are refusing work or calling in sick regularly so their pay does not affect their CERB.

At the risk of sounding like an old fart, I would never have considered turning down a job to stay on government assistance. I have been out of work several times in this industry and sure I have collected EI for a few weeks here and there to get me through and I was grateful for that. I also vowed the last time to ‘self-insure’ so I didn’t have to rely on anything else. Ever since then I have at least 6 months of expenses in reserve just in case.

Where is people’s pride these day? Nobody owes you anything and I would never consider turning down any work that gets me off public assistance. But hey, I guess that’s just me.

Rant over....

Good read about Canadians and their lust for government handouts...

https://apple.news/AyYBoc6f1SPmP1pA3jl_OoQ