WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

PostmasterGeneral
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.
---------- ADS -----------
 
indieadventurer
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:59 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by indieadventurer »

This particular incident aside, I find it surprising that TC mandated ages older than two and up where a mask.

I do not think most toddlers would keep a mask on for longer than a few minutes. Keep me a break, what a ridiculous rule.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inverted2
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Turdistan

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Inverted2 »

PostmasterGeneral wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:08 pm It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.
Try getting a fussy 3 year old to do anything especially wear a mask for several hours. It’s like trying to keep a mask on an angry cat. :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Let’s Go Brandon
Longtimer
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:31 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Longtimer »

2R wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:39 pm How responsible are you for your buddy ? When your buddies are travelling on your buddy passes.Could you be fired if your buddy goes on Television and bad mouths your company ?

Asking for a friend :)
According to the news today, the employee has lost their pass privilege's. That is why we are all very careful as to who we bring into our pass bubble.
---------- ADS -----------
 
planebored
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:24 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by planebored »

I'm sure once the lawyers get involved they'll get them back, and if they were let go, a nice fat paycheck. If in fact WestJet was trying to enforce a mask on a 19 month old which is not recommended by TC or medical professionals.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5930
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by digits_ »

Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
User avatar
780Pilot
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:53 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by 780Pilot »

When they say zero tolerance its ZERO tolerance. For some reason people seem to forget this. The passenger is probably lying through his teeth about how it all came to be. Id bet the crew has a much different view of the incident then what the news is reporting from the passengers perspective. Hes suing WJ, hes not going to win. When Westjet doubles down in their official statement about this they clearly don't think its their fault. Air travel is a privilege not a right.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by ALPApolicy »

digits_ wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:39 pm Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?
No sir, not balsy. Decisions to cancel flights are made routinely. Maintenance/weather/crew...the reasons to cancel a flight are numerous. I suspect the crew was in no mood to operate this flight with the elevated atmosphere in the cabin. The FAs have had their fill of being enforcers of mask usage and at some point they likely said “I’m done”. If that is the case, whether WJ was in a position on short notice to replace the crew or not, I don’t know. Whether or not they wanted to operate the flight with the elevated (I assume) emotions, I also don’t know.

Lots of times I’ve had people on board my flights, as every pilot has, who had important reasons to get somewhere. Since I’ve been with an airline (1996-now), that has not influenced my or my flight deck partner’s decision on flight completion. It simply is not a player. Nor is saying “NO” ballsy. Although it was, at times, in my pre-airline flying career.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5930
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by digits_ »

ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:00 pm
digits_ wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:39 pm Pretty ballsy though from Westjet to cancel the whole flight in a time where they desperately need people to fly.

Another concern to add to the list of Westjet travellers: will everyone on board wear their mask, or will the flight get cancelled?
No sir, not balsy. Decisions to cancel flights are made routinely. Maintenance/weather/crew...the reasons to cancel a flight are numerous. I suspect the crew was in no mood to operate this flight with the elevated atmosphere in the cabin. The FAs have had their fill of being enforcers of mask usage and at some point they likely said “I’m done”. If that is the case, whether WJ was in a position on short notice to replace the crew or not, I don’t know. Whether or not they wanted to operate the flight with the elevated (I assume) emotions, I also don’t know.

Lots of times I’ve had people on board my flights, as every pilot has, who had important reasons to get somewhere. Since I’ve been with an airline (1996-now), that has not influenced my or my flight deck partner’s decision on flight completion. It simply is not a player. Nor is saying “NO” ballsy. Although it was, at times, in my pre-airline flying career.
To the travelling public the details don't matter. The flight got cancelled because there was an issue with the mask of one child on board. That is terrible PR in a time where you want to get as much people travelling again as possible. So yes, cancelling the flight instead of delaying it with a new crew is a ballsy move, be it made by ops/management or the pilots. Westjet, nor any airline, is not really in a position to turn away revenue.

Also, because something is a ballsy move does not mean it was necessarily a bad decision, only that it was a, well, ballsy move.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4403
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by rookiepilot »

780Pilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:51 pm Air travel is a privilege not a right.
So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.

A professionally trained flight crew is paid to deal with difficult situations-- professionally, no?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Bede »

rookiepilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:18 pm So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.
They weren't paying customers. They were on buddy passes. This is the kind of crap that results in the buddy pass system getting cancelled. Absolutely pathetic.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4403
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by rookiepilot »

Bede wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:18 pm So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.
They weren't paying customers. They were on buddy passes. This is the kind of crap that results in the buddy pass system getting cancelled. Absolutely pathetic.
The rest of the pax were most likely paying customers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ALPApolicy
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:34 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by ALPApolicy »

digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.

I have seen the photo of the police on board the flight. This tells me a lot. As a 16 year Captain with WestJet, I can count on one hand the number of times I remember having to have the police attend to a situation on board. The vast majority of the times, myself or an FA or the gate agent were all that were necessary to deal with matters that had escalated. I suspect that you and I will never hear the full details of the incident unless “Mr bad buddy pass user” decides to pursue legal means all the way to court. WJ will not release publicly the details of the incident. It is possible I will hear third/fourth hand information at work that will fully vindicate the actions of the crew. It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5930
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by digits_ »

ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:32 pm digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.
I admit it will certainly do that. Is that necessary though? Close to 99% of the people didn't need the CEO flexing about the zero tolerance, as they were following said policy. You'll always have people that are unwilling or unable to follow certain policies. What will stick in people's minds as well, is that having one of those on board, might cancel your WestJet flight.
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:32 pm It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.
Which might be appropriate, or not, that doesn't matter to those other pax whose flight got cancelled. If there were serious threats from other pax creating an unsafe situation prohibiting a safe flight, then I am surprised they were allowed on another flight.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
172cptn
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:59 pm

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by 172cptn »

So what’s the actual story, was this situation with a 19 month old or were they over 2?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Negative Ghostrider the pattern is closed
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by AirFrame »

172cptn wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:03 am So what’s the actual story, was this situation with a 19 month old or were they over 2?
There were two children, a 19 month old, who was not required to wear a mask, and a 3 year old, who was.
---------- ADS -----------
 
2R
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4318
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: left coast

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by 2R »

Did the passenger who vomited get screened for Covid before the next flight or did they just ignore a symptom of Covid to get on the next flight ?
Demonstrates the need for rapid testing at airports , for passengers who may have similar symptoms as the Covid 1984 .
---------- ADS -----------
 
yhz41
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:34 pm
Location: Windy Hell

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by yhz41 »

Well the passenger that vomited was a 19 month old child so...no? Children do that kind of thing without having covid.
---------- ADS -----------
 
2R
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4318
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: left coast

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by 2R »

In normal times vomit might just be vomit , but as it is a symptom of Covid 1984 . Perhaps it should be taken seriously . Very few children have died from Covid ,but they are not immune from it .
Rapid tests might provide some assurances to other passengers who may be uncomfortable with being close to someone else’s pre-flight Vomit .

There are medical facilities in the Toronto Airport , but I do not know if they have rapid testing available yet . Or where the nearest rapid testing is available.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inverted2
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3692
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Turdistan

Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Inverted2 »

Projectile vomit could spew Kung Flu into the air and kill 99.7% of the other WJ guests on board. I think it’s time for a toddler ban. If it saves just one life.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Let’s Go Brandon
Locked

Return to “General Comments”