Air Canada is in bad shape

[Heliian]

You know it's bad when they're offering a nice cabin to the commoners.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/air-c ... -1.5154601

Maybe airlines need to rethink their strategy here. It's a smart move to entice people to travel in comfort again instead of being crammed into crappy cabins and milking every last passenger for everything, especially when they can't even deliver 8 out of 10 times.

[spinaxis]

Or they are utilizing their aircraft as best as they can given the lack of Jetz flying.

If they can entice people to come out and fly on a plane like this with more space and nicer seats then why not?

[iflyforpie]

Here’s an airline that finally gets it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/WestJet/stat ... gr%5Etweet

I got my AirBNB refund 7 months ago without even talking to a human being.

[rookiepilot]

Here's an idea, AC.

Offer a lifetime unlimited -- or even with max miles per year -- flight pass, with fair upgrade options to business class. It's been done before.

The right price, people might bite.

[porcsord]

Air Canada did not say if tickets for these flights would be more expensive.

Narrator: They Will Be.

[Donald]

Earlier this summer, the Jetz planes were running the yyz-yul-yyz route.

So far this year on my deadheads, I’ve ridden in the 787, 220, Jetz machine, regular 320, and embraer.

The newer aircraft/interiors are noticeably nicer, but overall AC provides a nice product.

[780Pilot]

Here's an idea, AC.

Offer a lifetime unlimited -- or even with max miles per year -- flight pass, with fair upgrade options to business class. It's been done before.

The right price, people might bite.

American Airlines did this back in the day. It was a financial disaster, AC would know this.

[goldeneagle]

You know it's bad when they're offering a nice cabin to the commoners.

It's an admission that the loads on those routes will be light, so instead of clocking the cycles and hours onto the higher capacity airframes, they are going to get some utilization of the lower capacity machines, hopefully postpone sending the higher capacity machines to heavy maintenance.

This is not about offering something good for no extra cost, it's about maximizing fleet utilization while minimizing heavy maintenance.

[Heliian]

You know it's bad when they're offering a nice cabin to the commoners.

It's an admission that the loads on those routes will be light, so instead of clocking the cycles and hours onto the higher capacity airframes, they are going to get some utilization of the lower capacity machines, hopefully postpone sending the higher capacity machines to heavy maintenance.

This is not about offering something good for no extra cost, it's about maximizing fleet utilization while minimizing heavy maintenance.

Ah, I see, so they will still treat their customers like shit.

@#$! Air Canada

[TheStig]

For those who are unfamiliar Jetz aircraft are A319's configured for charters (the Canadian NHL teams and Blue Jays). Obviously they aren't being flown right now and this is an interesting, and fairly low risk test. The loads are going to be light regardless, why not maximize yield?

An aside:

Jetz was on the cusp of dominating the North American sports charter market 10 years ago until ALPA (on behalf of Delta I believe?) starting raising a stink about cabotage. I'm not looking to pick a fight about that...What's interesting is how it was resolved. Air Canada, it was decided, would stick to flying only Canadian teams once their contracts with US franchises expired. As the story goes, along comes Klaus and rouge and it's decided that AC is getting out of the charter business all together, low cost is the future! However, that was until someone on the BoD starting asking why the Maple Leafs were boarding a Delta charter flight on HBO's 24/7 series they'd watched!

Operationally, the problem with the sports charters was that the airline never knew when they were going to get the airplanes back into scheduled operations as the teams get bounced from playoffs (other than the Leafs which haven't made it out of the 1st round since the invention of powered flight) and when they could be reincorporated into the schedule. Also, the cost to retrofit them was in the hundreds of thousands, which as it turns out, is more than the cost of leasing the aircraft and parking for a few months. The solution was to keep them configured and create a contract arrangement with the franchises to lease the aircraft as a joint venture with the airline.

Back to present day:

A quick glance at the routes and it appears that marketing is betting that Snowbirds are still planning on wintering out of the country. Aside from Cancun, you wouldn't classify the announced routes as 'holiday package' destinations. Until the requirement to isolate for 2 weeks upon return to Canada are lifted it doesn't make sense to fly to all-inclusive destinations.

Does anyone know what flying rouge is doing next month?

[Sharklasers]

For those who are unfamiliar Jetz aircraft are A319's configured for charters (the Canadian NHL teams and Blue Jays). Obviously they aren't being flown right now and this is an interesting, and fairly low risk test. The loads are going to be light regardless, why not maximize yield?

An aside:

Jetz was on the cusp of dominating the North American sports charter market 10 years ago until ALPA (on behalf of Delta I believe?) starting raising a stink about cabotage. I'm not looking to pick a fight about that...What's interesting is how it was resolved. Air Canada, it was decided, would stick to flying only Canadian teams once their contracts with US franchises expired. As the story goes, along comes Klaus and rouge and it's decided that AC is getting out of the charter business all together, low cost is the future! However, that was until someone on the BoD starting asking why the Maple Leafs were boarding a Delta charter flight on HBO's 24/7 series they'd watched!

Operationally, the problem with the sports charters was that the airline never knew when they were going to get the airplanes back into scheduled operations as the teams get bounced from playoffs (other than the Leafs which haven't made it out of the 1st round since the invention of powered flight) and when they could be reincorporated into the schedule. Also, the cost to retrofit them was in the hundreds of thousands, which as it turns out, is more than the cost of leasing the aircraft and parking for a few months. The solution was to keep them configured and create a contract arrangement with the franchises to lease the aircraft as a joint venture with the airline.

Back to present day:

A quick glance at the routes and it appears that marketing is betting that Snowbirds are still planning on wintering out of the country. Aside from Cancun, you wouldn't classify the announced routes as 'holiday package' destinations. Until the requirement to isolate for 2 weeks upon return to Canada are lifted it doesn't make sense to fly to all-inclusive destinations.

Does anyone know what flying rouge is doing next month?

I think there was a broader push outside of Klaus to get the utilization up on those A319, Ben Smith once told me at a roadshow that there was no real desire at the time to grow Jetz because “the Fins make more money bouncing back and forth between YOW-YYZ all day then they do flying 1 hour to BNA and sitting with all the associated costs of that.” The JV deal with spearheaded by MLSE struck a compromise that worked for everyone.

I’ve never seen the Jays take a Jetz fin. Usually they are too many people between the 26 man roster, 11 coaches, media staff, and equipment guys. Not saying it’s never been done but I’ve done a lot of Jetz and never hauled the Jays on a Jetz fin.

[TheStig]

Ah, I see, so they will still treat their customers like shit.

@#$! Air Canada

Years ago I was saying good bye to disembarking passengers in Ottawa, we had one of the Jetz Fins subbed in last minute and still managed to leave on time out of Toronto. Quick taxi to 06L, not a ripple enroute despite a big push, landed on 07, must have been some sort of time record for the sector.

A passengers comments, "How did we get stuck with this plane?" It took me half a second to realize they weren't joking.
"Was something wrong?" I asked.
"There aren't any TV's!"
"but it was a 25 minute flight and you had 4 feet of leg room?!" I replied (with a big smile).
"@#$! Air Canada." The passenger muttered as he walked onto the bridge.

Nice to know that we've met Heliian.

[Heliian]

Ah, I see, so they will still treat their customers like shit.

@#$! Air Canada

Years ago I was saying good bye to disembarking passengers in Ottawa, we had one of the Jetz Fins subbed in last minute and still managed to leave on time out of Toronto. Quick taxi to 06L, not a ripple enroute despite a big push, landed on 07, must have been some sort of time record for the sector.

A passengers comments, "How did we get stuck with this plane?" It took me half a second to realize they weren't joking.
"Was something wrong?" I asked.
"There aren't any TV's!"
"but it was a 25 minute flight and you had 4 feet of leg room?!" I replied (with a big smile).
"@#$! Air Canada." The passenger muttered as he walked onto the bridge.

Nice to know that we've met Heliian.

Ya, NO. I used to travel globally for work and AC was by far the worst service going that i ever had the pleasure to fly with. I'm not just talking about warm beer either. Their staff was also full of shit with their heads so far up their own asses, of course the AC staff have nothing but rainbows and unicorns to say about the company. My favorite AC experience was when I got shoved into a crappy seat after paying good money for "premium" their excuse was the stupid plane had been reconfigured for the "premium economy" cabin trial without notice and they let the plane go with 8 rows of seats empty and about a dozen irate individuals like myself and the staff said take it or get the hell off. I received 0 compensation and had the shittiest service i've ever experienced. Not a good look on a sydney aus to yvr flight. So yes, again, @#$! air canada, they can go bankrupt and put their staff in the unemployment line. But don't worry, it will only be a temporary inconvenience.

Some vacationers might get a bad flight once a year but in travelling extensively you'll see how often they just don't deliver.

[alkaseltzer]

Ah, I see, so they will still treat their customers like shit.

@#$! Air Canada

Years ago I was saying good bye to disembarking passengers in Ottawa, we had one of the Jetz Fins subbed in last minute and still managed to leave on time out of Toronto. Quick taxi to 06L, not a ripple enroute despite a big push, landed on 07, must have been some sort of time record for the sector.

A passengers comments, "How did we get stuck with this plane?" It took me half a second to realize they weren't joking.
"Was something wrong?" I asked.
"There aren't any TV's!"
"but it was a 25 minute flight and you had 4 feet of leg room?!" I replied (with a big smile).
"@#$! Air Canada." The passenger muttered as he walked onto the bridge.

Nice to know that we've met Heliian.

Ya, NO. I used to travel globally for work and AC was by far the worst service going that i ever had the pleasure to fly with. I'm not just talking about warm beer either. Their staff was also full of shit with their heads so far up their own asses, of course the AC staff have nothing but rainbows and unicorns to say about the company. My favorite AC experience was when I got shoved into a crappy seat after paying good money for "premium" their excuse was the stupid plane had been reconfigured for the "premium economy" cabin trial without notice and they let the plane go with 8 rows of seats empty and about a dozen irate individuals like myself and the staff said take it or get the hell off. I received 0 compensation and had the shittiest service i've ever experienced. Not a good look on a sydney aus to yvr flight. So yes, again, @#$! air canada, they can go bankrupt and put their staff in the unemployment line. But don't worry, it will only be a temporary inconvenience.

Some vacationers might get a bad flight once a year but in travelling extensively you'll see how often they just don't deliver.

You earned enough money to travel premium economy on YVR-AUS and yet, here you are yapping away/wasting your time on AvCanada? I call BS.

You probably went standby, got lucky for an "upgrade" and expected the red carpet treatment.

Sorry, it's so easy to spot the "well travelled" Kardashians these days.

[Heliian]

Years ago I was saying good bye to disembarking passengers in Ottawa, we had one of the Jetz Fins subbed in last minute and still managed to leave on time out of Toronto. Quick taxi to 06L, not a ripple enroute despite a big push, landed on 07, must have been some sort of time record for the sector.

A passengers comments, "How did we get stuck with this plane?" It took me half a second to realize they weren't joking.
"Was something wrong?" I asked.
"There aren't any TV's!"
"but it was a 25 minute flight and you had 4 feet of leg room?!" I replied (with a big smile).
"@#$! Air Canada." The passenger muttered as he walked onto the bridge.

Nice to know that we've met Heliian.

Ya, NO. I used to travel globally for work and AC was by far the worst service going that i ever had the pleasure to fly with. I'm not just talking about warm beer either. Their staff was also full of shit with their heads so far up their own asses, of course the AC staff have nothing but rainbows and unicorns to say about the company. My favorite AC experience was when I got shoved into a crappy seat after paying good money for "premium" their excuse was the stupid plane had been reconfigured for the "premium economy" cabin trial without notice and they let the plane go with 8 rows of seats empty and about a dozen irate individuals like myself and the staff said take it or get the hell off. I received 0 compensation and had the shittiest service i've ever experienced. Not a good look on a sydney aus to yvr flight. So yes, again, @#$! air canada, they can go bankrupt and put their staff in the unemployment line. But don't worry, it will only be a temporary inconvenience.

Some vacationers might get a bad flight once a year but in travelling extensively you'll see how often they just don't deliver.

You earned enough money to travel premium economy on YVR-AUS and yet, here you are yapping away/wasting your time on AvCanada? I call BS.

You probably went standby, got lucky for an "upgrade" and expected the red carpet treatment.

Sorry, it's so easy to spot the "well travelled" Kardashians these days.

If you read the post you would comprehend that this was before the "premium economy" rollout.

And no, it was full fare economy with a paid selected "premium" seat.

That was just a vacation, most of my travel was extensively for my job as an AME. I have no reason to make this shit up and am recounting some of my terrible trips with air Canada.

Having been an AC customer for 4 decades, I think I have an idea of how they used to be over the current model. Don't get me started about their shitty rouge plane substitutions either.

[TheStig]

Heliian,

I don't have any idea what happened in your experiences, from what you said it certainly sounds like you didn't receive what you paid for and deserved some compensation?

I'm not going to make excuses for refund policies or the way you felt you were mistreated. What I do know is that it's easy to make enemies in the airline world because there are a lot of moving parts required to work in unison and everyone simply does the best they can with the tools they're given. As an AME you would know that even with a fleet of aircraft that provide 99% dispatch reliability, with 800 flights a day, there are going to be 8 aircraft unable to push when they're supposed to everyday, that gives you a few thousand enemies right there with stories of "I'm never flying XXXX airline again."

Then there're delays enroute due to weather, no shows who require bags off-loaded, ATC delays, red alerts, NOTAM closures, people who try and flush diapers in the lav or sabotage multimillion dollar airplanes in every way imaginable (As you've seen), customs delays, security delays. All of which people blame on the airline and expect compensation from a business that treads water at the best of times on nearly invisible margins.

Everyone thinks they travel extensively. Nobody lives in the air travel system and is more intune with its rigours than aircrew, the difference is when you've had a chance to see things from the other side you see just how staggering the challenges of keeping everyone happy are.

Things have changed a ton in the last 4 decades and I think Air Canada has made tremendous strides with respect to its customer service in the past 5, I think most would agree that the leg room on rouge is terrible and the rollout in was a disaster. However, the product itself is what the market was willing to pay for. Air Canada couldn't continue to loose money offering legroom when most passengers weren't willing to pay a premium for it. Maybe the offering of the Jetz configured airplanes proves otherwise?

[Daniel Cooper]

Here’s an airline that finally gets it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/WestJet/stat ... gr%5Etweet

I got my AirBNB refund 7 months ago without even talking to a human being.

Aren't they just refunding tickets that sold as refundable? Something that Air Canada has already been doing all along?

[Gino Under]

The majority of airlines today have very little to be proud of when it comes to service. This is the age of the LCC and you get SFA when you pay SFA for your ticket. Criticizing Air Canada is fun, but mostly falls on deaf ears. As it should. In most cases, if you bought a seat from A to B and complete that flight from A to B, on time or not, you've done well. Get on the plane. Sit down, belt up, shut up, and keep your feet off the seats.
Any A318 flying today isn't making money for ANY airline unless it's used on a long sector filled to capacity. Air Canada may be using the opportunity to simply operate as many types on any route just to keep them serviceable. This is a lame duck airline right now, scrambling for survival. Criticizing them for any shortcomings is pointless.

If I ran Air Canada, or any of our airlines for that matter, there would be no refunds, Period.
There would be no staff travel, Period.
There would be no interline travel, Period.
No “freebies “!!! Period.
Why? Because that’s where we are. I’d pinch every penny, not once but twice.
I’d also place the airline into hibernation with the exception of about 5-10% of the operation.

But, let's be honest. I'm no more capable of running an airline than I might like to imagine.

Gino

[rookiepilot]

I've flown my share and actually think AC has improved a lot in the last 5-7 years. Seems most of the horrible desk agents and rude FA's are gone. Legroom sucks but that's not frontline's fault.

A big measurement for me of a business is rude service staff. I won't tolerate it as I am very very polite to everyone I deal with regardless of station.

I am not impressed with WJ's passenger treatment of late, and that always starts at the top. I don't fly them -- well rarely anyway -- so it's not from a personal bad experience. WJ strikes me as a company in complete disarray these days.

[spinaxis]

Ah, I see, so they will still treat their customers like shit.

@#$! Air Canada