Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

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flyguy73
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by flyguy73 »

montado wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 pm
flyguy73 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:40 am
Inverted2 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:05 pm

I think the Chinese wanted Trump gone yesterday because he stands up to them. Very suspicious they released this virus during an election year, but we will see where this all goes..... Biden is talking mask mask mask, but here in Canada the numbers are way up since masks were made mandatory in most areas. As for the vaccine, I hope it works but I won’t be at the front of any line to take it.
Look back to March during the first lockdown and see how COVID numbers decreased. Then look in the summer when lockdowns were eased and see where the numbers went. Here we are today with minimal lockdowns and numbers going up yet we have mandatory masking. But look at countries like the USA without mandatory masking and see that they have 5 times the COVID numbers as Canada. All we have to do it look to them to know that as much as a pain in the ass masks are, they actually do work. So just suck it up snowflake and wear the f'n mask.
I always enjoy subjective “proof” that misses so many facts. Firstly in the USA do you even know how many states and municipalities have mandatory masks? 34 states, that’s right, including one of the hardest hit NY. Canadians think Americans are all hillbilly trumpians when for the most part they have very similar policy and similar compliance in most states.

Funny if you look at the graph for NY, mandatory masks happened end of may, however covid cases were already on the decline. Now for some reason cases are trending up, in the state that’s heavily democrat, and mask abiding citizens. (Is this really about mask... or maybe flu season, social distancing, and outdoor activity has way more bearing on outcomes?)

And let me guess, you have an answer for Sweden too, who has been averaging under 5 deaths a day since August. No mandatory mask in Sweden, some people there choose to wear them, however it seems as if the citizens can use their own judgment. Plenty of images from Sweden showing mask use is not really the norm.

Masks doesn’t work well enough to slow the spread. Need some proof just look at all the places with mandatory mask policy, it ain’t working :lol:... But I can tell you what the mask does very very well.. people who don’t have covid, and wear a mask, are doing a great job of not spreading covid... probably because the mask... but I’m not sure..... science....
Of course masks are not the only answer. Pretty sure nobody ever said they were. They've always said "wear a mask when you can't physically distance". Of course, physical distancing is the best way to prevent getting sick. You won't get sick if you aren't around sick people. You don't need a PhD to deduce that one.

That said, masking is one more element to reduce exposure. NY state is following the same trend of much of Canada that has mandatory masks. NY has about 20 deaths per day. Florida (as state with no mandatory mask policy) has had around 100 deaths per day over the entire summer and is increasing now in the second wave.

And Sweden is averaging at least 10-15 deaths a day in their latest wave and 5,000 cases per day. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/sweden/. I'm not sure why people keep using Sweden (6100 deaths) as an example to uphold? Compare them to Finland (369 deaths) or Norway (300 deaths) and you'll see their plan has been an abject failure.

Seriously, why would you not expect that a disease that is spread by close contact with people that are sick not be reduced through the use of a device meant to reduce the spread of virus particles. I work with the Engineers that develop masks and mask materials and I'm aware how they develop these masks to limit transmission of particles less then 10 nm in size. They obviously have a reason for believing that these are useful for limiting the spread of viruses and have a multitude of tests to validate these things. What is your expertise in reaching your conclusions?
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northernpilot2
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by northernpilot2 »

flyguy73 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:34 am What is your expertise in reaching your conclusions?
Its not the media, that's for sure. You actually believe those numbers are real? :lol:
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flyguy73
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by flyguy73 »

northernpilot2 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:27 am
flyguy73 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:34 am What is your expertise in reaching your conclusions?
Its not the media, that's for sure. You actually believe those numbers are real? :lol:
You have other knowledge that the rest of us don't? If so, please share and we will evaluate it's credibility. Or is your information as credible as Trump's is about fraudulent voting? So please share your information. Obviously you aren't getting your information from the media, so from where then? QAnon?
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Inverted2
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by Inverted2 »

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpos ... 7ba3d/amp/

He tested positive twice and negative twice in the same day. They can’t even have accurate tests so I will reserve any judgment for a Bill Gates vaccine. :wink:
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by CpnCrunch »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:18 am https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpos ... 7ba3d/amp/

He tested positive twice and negative twice in the same day.
Perhaps because of this (which you'd have seen if you read the article):

The billionaire said he took a series of rapid antigen tests, which produce results within 15 minutes and are cheaper but less reliable than polymerase chain reaction tests
They can’t even have accurate tests so I will reserve any judgment for a Bill Gates vaccine. :wink:
Well, actually, they can, as the article you posted showed.
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Inverted2
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by Inverted2 »

CpnCrunch wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 am
Inverted2 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:18 am https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpos ... 7ba3d/amp/

He tested positive twice and negative twice in the same day.
Perhaps because of this (which you'd have seen if you read the article):

The billionaire said he took a series of rapid antigen tests, which produce results within 15 minutes and are cheaper but less reliable than polymerase chain reaction tests
They can’t even have accurate tests so I will reserve any judgment for a Bill Gates vaccine. :wink:
Well, actually, they can, as the article you posted showed.
Well, in case you’ve been hiding in the basement with no outside contact for the past 2 months,those rapid tests are the ones the airlines are hoping to be using soon. If you are in fact employed by an airline, their flaws should be pointed out as it is pertinent to our livelihood.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by CpnCrunch »

northernpilot2 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:34 am Get rid of mandatory mask, its bullshit. Vaccine is bullshit. Covid is bullshit. Get over it..
Yeah, tell that to the people that have died, or are in the vulnerable group. You might change your tune once your own relative dies from it.
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mixturerich
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by mixturerich »

This is gonna be another train wreck avcanada covid thread.

Seriously guys, WTF is going on here? What is wrong with some of you? I knew there were some conspiracy whack jobs in our ranks but I guess they all congregate on avcanada because people are so sick of listening to them in the cockpit.

We actually have professional pilots taking a stance against masks. A profession that literally revolves around safety, preventative medicine, and generally a “better safe than sorry” mentality. The vast majority of doctors (with qualifications we no not have) advocate wearing masks when we can’t stay 6ft apart. Suddenly we have aviation people pulling articles and random studies out of their ass from all over the web, trying to go against the grain, and topple the mainstream thinking. And for what? It’s not going to get your job back, dummies. You’re not going to “win” the battle against masks. You’re only making this whole fiasco worse be preventing us from getting on the same page! I guess I was naive to think that the modern rise of anti-intellectualism wouldn’t creep into our profession too. It’s still embarrassing.
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montado
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by montado »

Maybe I need to define what I mean when I say masks don't work. I don't mean they don't work at all. I don't mean they don't stop any new cases.

What I do mean is for a cloth mask to be effective it takes a significant amount of thought in the way you use it. Infact wearing a cloth mask can actually put you at higher risk of not used properly. They have even done studies on medical professionals wearing medical grade masks. They found when masks are used for targeted exposure they were rendered not effective. In other words if you remove and install a mask throughout your shift and only wear it when in the room with a patient it loses its effectiveness. As for the aircanada issued mask, I can say as soon as it gets washed and dry it shrunk pretty small. I see lots of people wearing very small masks on their face that don't really cover the chin and nose on an adult size face. But this is company issue and we are told this will protect us... So carry on right?

So the cloth masks works in a perfect world. Yes you can do a stupid test and put a mask on a test bench and prove it blocks some spit. But put a mask on millions of people who wear it under their nose, who wear the same cloth for over 4 hours. Who don't wash it daily, who touch their face, who don't have a snug fit, who remove it outside the store then put it back on then remove again 10 more times that day... which this applies to probably 90 percent of people... When I say masks don't work, this is why they don't work.

As for tracking cases and why some first waves look different than second waves in different places. Some like to say the mask is why. My belief on the deaths is if you are hit hard with deaths the first wave the most vulnerable are killed off. This means the second wave you have less vulnerable and only the original surviving left. These people are not likely to die round two. This is exactly how flu season works. If you live somewhere that has a terrible flue season with high deaths, the following season you are more likely to not be hit as hard. Statistical graphs on normal death rates provide evidence of that.

The masks have very little to do with any of the trends we see. The mask is the face of the pandemic but its just a distraction from the reality in my opinion. I'm happy to wear the mask to appease you, but I don't think for one second that it will prevent me from giving you covid if you don't keep distance.

I have to wonder why people are so confident masks work, when experts are still debating how covid is spreading. It was only a couple months ago CDC updated guidelines and said its spreading with aerosol. Cloth masks don't block all aerosols. Saying cloth masks work is like saying winter tires stop winter car crashes. Winter tires work. But why do people still get into accidents in snow? Why do people still get covid when we have mandatory masks?

Winter tires work like you would say masks work... Masks don't work like you might say winter tires don't work. You would not drive you car any different with winter tires as you would with summer tires, so why would you wear a mask and do things you would not do without a mask?
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mixturerich
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by mixturerich »

montado wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:03 am I'm happy to wear the mask to appease you, but I don't think for one second that it will prevent me from giving you covid if you don't keep distance.
Okay this is good...at least now you’re complying...that’s all the mainstream wants.

Listen, I admit I can’t know 100% whether masks work or not. However, the big mainstream dial points to “Yes” a lot more than “No”, so like a simple sensible child I like take the safer option.

I still just don’t understand how some people can be 100% sure that they don’t work and have to be so Trumpy about it. It’s not an aviation safety mentality at all, where we normally take the safer route. It’s just weird to me.
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montado
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by montado »

mixturerich wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:07 pm
montado wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:03 am I'm happy to wear the mask to appease you, but I don't think for one second that it will prevent me from giving you covid if you don't keep distance.
Okay this is good...at least now you’re complying...that’s all the mainstream wants.

Listen, I admit I can’t know 100% whether masks work or not. However, the big mainstream dial points to “Yes” a lot more than “No”, so like a simple sensible child I like take the safer option.

I still just don’t understand how some people can be 100% sure that they don’t work and have to be so Trumpy about it. It’s not an aviation safety mentality at all, where we normally take the safer route. It’s just weird to me.
It is very complicated to not wear a mask when the policy says you have to. So I think most people who don't even believe in the mask wear it because it makes life way more simple. My approach is the "you do you" philosophy. I don't judge anyone who choose not to wear, or to wear a mask. I simply don't give one shit, as it is not likely to make a difference unless some covid infested coughing monster chooses to sneezer an spit all over me, but then again the mask probably wont help. The other day I got a dry cough fit, which the mask didn't help... I was in a store and everyone was looking at me as if I had a gun and was about to shoot them... Like holy @#$! someone is coughing! We will all die... the cold dry air sometimes causes me to have a momentary coughing fit.

As to your last point, if you are unsure about the efficacy of masks, don't you think the best action is to use the mask in a way that you would still take the same precautions you would if you did not have a mask? To be honest I feel no safer walking around a costco with a mask than without it, and the same as if other wear one or not. And then for the times that I am in an enclosed space for longer durations, while I wear the mask, the exposure is so close, and long that I know my shit mask did sweet @#$! all. I know when I wear my mask outside my glasses fog up, because the air escapes. I can make it tighter at the top, then the air goes out the side. To me its like the winter tire analogy. There are plenty of people who drive with all season tires that I would 100% rather drive with in a blizzard than the next person driving with winter tires on. The mask is a tool, like a winter tire... We all know if winter tires give you more confidence to drive faster, you don't reduce accidents. Hence a policy "wear masks when you cant keep distance" is as good as saying, "now that you have your winter tires on you can drive like its summer". Does this explain why masks "don't work" because social distancing is very effective, and masks are not... but we pretend masks are so people can feel normal enough. Why this topic is so debated I don't know... I have no clue why people complain when someone is not wearing a mask... Would you outrage at someone for not using winter tires? Does evidence support that places that have mandatory winter tires they have less accidents? Or does everyone just drive faster and end up in accidents the same as other places? Makes me wonder why masks are mandatory so I can do certain risky things that I'm not allowed to do without a mask.

McD'd is happy though... They will profit, and take down all the mom and pop restaurants. They are already shilling for a new normal. Be fat dumb and stupid!- McDonalds

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Goodman5
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by Goodman5 »

You must not live in a part of Canada where winter tires are absolutely required for winter driving.

People who don’t have winter tires on get sh*t on by other drivers. Because they’re wreckless and putting themselves and others at risk.

The majority of people understand that winter tires don’t mean you can drive ‘like it’s summer’.

Most people know they are taking a precaution to protect themselves and others while operating a vehicle in unfavourable road conditions. (any respectable pilot knows this I’ll add!)

Most people know it would be stupid/wreckless/inconsiderate to not comply.

Most people don’t want to be that guy.

The majority of people see anti-maskers as that guy.

Don’t be that guy man.
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by photofly »

Goodman5 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:33 pm People who don’t have winter tires on get sh*t on by other drivers. Because they’re wreckless and putting themselves and others at risk.
Ah, that'll be reckless - not wreckless. In fact, less likely to be wreckless.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by rookiepilot »

mixturerich wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:43 am The vast majority of doctors (with qualifications we no not have) advocate wearing masks when we can’t stay 6ft apart. Suddenly we have aviation people pulling articles and random studies out of their ass from all over the web, trying to go against the grain, and topple the mainstream thinking.
Mmmmmmm.......

My thought?

Listen to your public health authority.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
montado
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by montado »

CDC is now saying cloth masks protect the wearer. Every week a new announcement lol. So does this mean now everyone can take personal responsibility and wear the PPE they choose... Like you cant blame me for killing grandma anymore... since masks protect the wearer, if grandma wears a mask...
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by photofly »

montado wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:59 pm To be honest I feel no safer walking around a costco with a mask than without it
But I feel safer walking around Costco when you are walking around Costco wearing a mask. I thank you for doing so.
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by shimmydampner »

montado wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 pmFirstly in the USA do you even know how many states and municipalities have mandatory masks? 34 states, that’s right, including one of the hardest hit NY.

Funny if you look at the graph for NY, mandatory masks happened end of may, however covid cases were already on the decline. Now for some reason cases are trending up, in the state that’s heavily democrat, and mask abiding citizens. (Is this really about mask... or maybe flu season, social distancing, and outdoor activity has way more bearing on outcomes?)

And let me guess, you have an answer for Sweden too, who has been averaging under 5 deaths a day since August. No mandatory mask in Sweden, some people there choose to wear them, however it seems as if the citizens can use their own judgment. Plenty of images from Sweden showing mask use is not really the norm.

Masks doesn’t work well enough to slow the spread. Need some proof just look at all the places with mandatory mask policy, it ain’t working :lol:... But I can tell you what the mask does very very well.. people who don’t have covid, and wear a mask, are doing a great job of not spreading covid... probably because the mask... but I’m not sure..... science....
montado wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 pm I always enjoy subjective “proof” that misses so many facts.
Almost like all that subjective "proof" that conflates correlation with causation.
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by AirFrame »

mixturerich wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:53 pm Everyone is an expert here and with so much contradictory evidence how are we supposed to ever figure this out
Simple. *we* aren't going to figure it out. The scientists are. All *we* have to do is listen to them and stop second-guessing them with armchair PhD's.
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by rookiepilot »

AirFrame wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:51 am
mixturerich wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:53 pm Everyone is an expert here and with so much contradictory evidence how are we supposed to ever figure this out
Simple. *we* aren't going to figure it out. The scientists are. All *we* have to do is listen to them and stop second-guessing them with armchair PhD's.
Pax don't need to understand how an aircraft flies to listen to instructions and follow the rules.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

Post by 2R »

The Scientists cannot agree . But most military planners are in agreement and are re-arming and getting ready . The flurry of activity at dual use laboratories is interesting . The car parks at the malls are empty , but the car parks at the Laboratories are full . I do hope General Carter is wrong . But all the signs are pointing to him offering a reasoned and accurate assessment of the global situation.

Any dates for getting the vaccines yet ?
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