Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

[Human Factor]

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[montado]

I want the vaccine for everyone else, not for myself.

Could you imagine the consequences of screwing this vaccine up? It could make a whole lot of people join the anti vaccine crowd.

[geodoc]

Snipped from an article published in "Global Research". Further to that outfit:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

Pfizer recently announced that its covid vaccine was more than 90 percent “effective” at preventing covid-19. Shortly after this announcement, Moderna announced that its covid vaccine was 94.5 percent “effective” at preventing covid-19. Unlike the flu vaccine, which is one shot, both covid vaccines require two shots given three to four weeks apart. Hidden toward the end of both announcements, were the definitions of “effective.”

Both trials have a treatment group that received the vaccine and a control group that did not. All the trial subjects were covid negative prior to the start of the trial. The analysis for both trials was performed when a target number of “cases” were reached. “Cases” were defined by positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing. There was no information about the cycle number for the PCR tests. There was no information about whether the “cases” had symptoms or not. There was no information about hospitalizations or deaths. The Pfizer study had 43,538 participants and was analyzed after 164 cases. So, roughly 150 out 21,750 participants (less than 0.7 percent) became PCR positive in the control group and about one-tenth that number in the vaccine group became PCR positive. The Moderna trial had 30,000 participants. There were 95 “cases” in the 15,000 control participants (about 0.6 percent) and 5 “cases” in the 15,000 vaccine participants (about one-twentieth of 0.6 percent). The “efficacy” figures quoted in these announcements are odds ratios.

There is no evidence, yet, that the vaccine prevented any hospitalizations or any deaths. The Moderna announcement claimed that eleven cases in the control group were “severe” disease, but “severe” was not defined. If there were any hospitalizations or deaths in either group, the public has not been told. When the risks of an event are small, odds ratios can be misleading about absolute risk. A more meaningful measure of efficacy would be the number to vaccinate to prevent one hospitalization or one death. Those numbers are not available. An estimate of the number to treat from the Moderna trial to prevent a single “case” would be fifteen thousand vaccinations to prevent ninety “cases” or 167 vaccinations per “case” prevented which does not sound nearly as good as 94.5 percent effective. The publicists working for pharmaceutical companies are very smart people. If there were a reduction in mortality from these vaccines, that information would be in the first paragraph of the announcement.

There is no information about how long any protective benefit from the vaccine would persist. Antibody response following covid-19 appears to be short lived. Based on what we know, the covid vaccine may require two shots every three to six months to be protective. The more shots required, the greater the risk of side effects from sensitization to the vaccine.

There is no information about safety. None. Government agencies like the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) appear to have two completely different standards for attributing deaths to covid-19 and attributing side effects to covid vaccines. If these vaccines are approved, as they likely will be, the first group to be vaccinated will be the beta testers. I am employed by a university-based medical center that is a referral center for the West Texas region. My colleagues include resident physicians and faculty physicians who work with covid patients on a daily basis. I have asked a number of my colleagues whether they will be first in line for the new vaccine. I have yet to hear any of my colleagues respond affirmatively. The reasons for hesitancy are that the uncertainties about safety exceed what they perceive to be a small benefit. In other words, my colleagues would prefer to take their chances with covid rather than beta test the vaccine. Many of my colleagues want to see the safety data after a year of use before getting vaccinated; these colleagues are concerned about possible autoimmune side effects that may not appear for months after vaccination.

These announcements by Pfizer and Moderna are encouraging. I certainly hope that these vaccines protect people from the harm of covid-19. I certainly hope that these vaccines are safe. If both of these conditions are true, nobody will need to be coerced into taking the vaccine. However, you should pay even more attention about what is left out of an announcement than about what is stated. The pharmaceutical companies are more than happy for patients to misunderstand what is meant by efficacy. Caveat emptor (buyer beware)!

Gilbert Berdine, MD
2020/11/24

Gilbert Berdine is an associate professor of medicine at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center and an affiliate of the Free Market Institute at Texas Tech University.

[pecessix]

Snipped from an article published in "Global Research". Further to that outfit:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

I did not snipped it from Global Research, but I found it on mises.org (the website where it was originally published I think)

This RationalWiki is "interesting"... Further to that outfit:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-revi ... ki?share=1
And it's easy to question yourself about RationalWiki if you take the time to read its articles.

[valleyboy]

Vaccines are not the silver bullet. I wonder how many here get their flu shots every fall because covid will likely be under the same preventative measure. It just cuts down on the odds. It's not a cure.

Vaccinations will become more of a routine and part of life because this won't be the last time this happens. The high population areas of the world have been wearing masks for years. The price you pay for living in such an area. Certain areas in canada are moving in this direction. In my opinion if every one moves to live elbow to elbow with their neighbour it makes it far better for us remote dwellers.

I get my flu shots and am waiting for the covid vaccine and wearing my mask in public. Take a pill folks and relax and think of others and not just a little personal hardship. This is tough for sure but no one is shooting at us or dropping bombs. This is much easier than going to war, just ask your grandfathers, electronically, keep them safe.

[geodoc]

I've read a considerable number of their articles and ones from the referenced foot notes as well. It may be as the saying goes, each must find for himself where beauty lies and so too it is with rationality. As for your referenced Doctor, when I was growing up It was instilled in me that one can judge a person based on the company they keep. In his (Global Research) case that company consists of articles about chemtrails, Tienanmen Square being a hoax and a toxic assortment of certified crazy.

Snipped from an article published in "Global Research". Further to that outfit:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

I did not snipped it from Global Research, but I found it on mises.org (the website where it was originally published I think)

This RationalWiki is "interesting"... Further to that outfit:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-revi ... ki?share=1
And it's easy to question yourself about RationalWiki if you take the time to read its articles.

[rookiepilot]

Take a pill folks and relax and think of others and not just a little personal hardship. This is tough for sure but no one is shooting at us or dropping bombs. This is much easier than going to war, just ask your grandfathers, electronically, keep them safe.

Well said.

Covid is annoying but it's a zit in comparison to other things people have, and are, going through. I know this well.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Take a pill folks and relax and think of others and not just a little personal hardship. This is tough for sure but no one is shooting at us or dropping bombs. This is much easier than going to war, just ask your grandfathers, electronically, keep them safe.

Well said.

Covid is annoying but it's a zit in comparison to other things people have, and are, going through. I know this well.

Protip: everyone knows this well. My grandparents survived WWII in the Netherlands. I have been viciously violent. My mother died in my arms. My brother is suicidally depressed. We all have our crosses to bear, but to assume that your cross is bigger is the very definition of Pride.

Try to remember that everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

[Castorero]

viewtopic.php?p=1136751#p1136751

Men of reason, Mixturerich, Valleyboy, CpnCrunch, cncpc, Bede, Rockie, Mbav8r,Trematode, 55+ and a few others... Keep fighting the good fight in defending this Church from the Heretics spreading a false gospel, while The Pope (mods) is on vacation...

Remember that "Truth Prevails" if enough good people defend it.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Take a pill folks and relax and think of others and not just a little personal hardship. This is tough for sure but no one is shooting at us or dropping bombs. This is much easier than going to war, just ask your grandfathers, electronically, keep them safe.

Well said.

Covid is annoying but it's a zit in comparison to other things people have, and are, going through. I know this well.

Protip: everyone knows this well. My grandparents survived WWII in the Netherlands. I have been viciously violent. My mother died in my arms. My brother is suicidally depressed. We all have our crosses to bear, but to assume that your cross is bigger is the very definition of Pride.

Try to remember that everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

^ Well said indeed. A little empathy, a little willingness to understand that everybody faces challenges that aren't necessarily obvious, that not everything is the universe delivering a slap upside the head to oneself, and that life can be completely random, goes a long, long way.

[rookiepilot]

Try to remember that everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

Many have suffered in unimaginable ways before Covid came along, RedAndWhiteBaron.

[Castorero]

EMPATHY..." the capacity to understand what another person is feeling, from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes"

Two psychological terms associated with a Lack of Empathy are Sociopathy and Psychopathy, and when combined with a Narcissistic trait you have the manifestations of a broad range of antisocial behaviors.

In order to manifest Empathy, you, yourself, have to feel that you are part of that something outside of yourself, like your community and more broadly, of Humanity itself.

If this grounding is lacking, for whatever reason, you have the refusal to wear a mask etc, or do anything that may benefit the Common Good.

You have the manifestation of someone like The Donald, now intent on destroying the very foundations of his country's Democracy, and further impoverish millions of his "followers" that so badly need the help they thought would be coming their way.

I am not convinced that one can reason with, or alter the mindset of a sociopathic narcissist without some life altering intervention.

Leading by example is a reasonable alternative in helping the majority of society to stay the course, because we all are in this together, like it or not.

[tsgarp]

Vaccine is approved.

Damn those educated people with credentials.

Educated and credentialed people conducted the Tuskegee experiment, produced Thalidomide and sold us saccharine.

The vaccine has moved out of the realm of science and into the realm of politics, kind of like the Challenger launch. I’m not antivax, but I’m not going to be first in line for this one.

Rockie, you are just smart enough to be dangerous.

[Inverted2]

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ts-2020-12

“Several trial participants who were given a shot of the prototype vaccine had tested positive for HIV, despite not having that virus.

The trial vaccine had used parts of a protein found in HIV, which triggered antibodies commonly seen during HIV testing.

Despite the false-positive HIV test results, the trial vaccine was showing promising signs in combating the coronavirus, the University of Queensland said in a Friday statement.”

[CL-Skadoo!]

This is all I can think of when I read these posts:

[CpnCrunch]

Oh dear.

[Inverted2]

I miss the old Simpsons...

[montado]

https://www.watoday.com.au/world/south- ... 56ooe.html

Mandatory vaccine in Brazil. I wonder how their leader will backtrack after saying it’s just the flu!

[montado]

"Wearing a used mask can be worse than not wearing one at all: Study | Toronto Sun" https://torontosun.com/health/wearing-a ... 40523/amp/

How many people are running around with snotty masks they haven't washed or replaced daily. Probably 80 percent of people. Thank goodness for this vaccination coming so soon or we in north America would be doomed with all these snot infused pro maskers spreading their germs around. Nothing worse than those who virtu signal when their actions are proven to actually be worse for society.

[Human Factor]

Nothing worse than those who virtue signal, period.