Carbon tax announced December 2020

[montado]

"If we trust scientists with our health, as we do, then we must also trust their research and their expertise when it comes to other existential threats and that includes climate change," Trudeau

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... imate-goal

What do we see for the future of aviation, an industry that will be fairly impacted by carbon taxes? Hydrogen powered planes can't come fast enough?

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

There are still places in this country that want pollution to be free again

Ouch. That was pretty thinly veiled.

[rookiepilot]

I'm in no way a Trudeau fan, but he's right on this issue.

[digits_]

Maybe. But on the other hand, is Canada really a country that should be concerned with CO2 production? There's soo much trees and bush out here, that I'm really wondering if it's necessary.

Then again, limiting CO2 production in reality means less fuel burn, which saves on all the other toxic byproducts, so that's a win.

[Inverted2]

I'm in no way a Trudeau fan, but he's right on this issue.

Right on what? Making it unaffordable for people to drive or heat their homes? Or bring in hundreds of thousands more immigrants a year which leads to more cars and pollution? It’s just a tax grab, not going to change anything except drain the wallets of taxpayers when many are barely making it.

If you’re employed in the aviation industry you should be dead agains Trudopes carbon taxes.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Here's how it worked out for me and my wife. We spent in the ballpark of $4000 on gasoline last year. AFAIK, out of that, 5¢ on every litre was due to the carbon tax. Gasoline averaged $1/litre in 2019 according to my records - and I track gas very well. So I think the carbon tax cost us about $200 on our gasoline purchases. I drive an Outback and she drives an SX4 sedan.

We received a $350 tax rebate earlier this year. I can't remember what they called it, but $350 of our total rebate was on account of this carbon tax.

Now, our heating is included in our rent, so we are somewhat insulated from this tax. The heating cost for our building has roughly doubled in five years (all electric baseboard heat) and rent controls have been kind to us. But I also drive twice as much as most people do (driving is my happy place when I'm not flying). So while yes, it's a tax, I have the numbers on my budget to tell me that we're more than breaking even on it.

My only issue with this tax is that it takes money now - and returns it at some unspecified point in the future. When you're barely putting food on your table and choosing between paying the gas bill or the phone bill, $350 six months from now doesn't help.

So while I don't disagree with carbon taxes on principle, I don't like the way it's been implemented. It hurts the poorest the most. The timing of this one also leaves something to be desired.

That's my 2 carbon tax cents on the matter.

[rookiepilot]

I'm in no way a Trudeau fan, but he's right on this issue.

Right on what? Making it unaffordable for people to drive or heat their homes? Or bring in hundreds of thousands more immigrants a year which leads to more cars and pollution? It’s just a tax grab, not going to change anything except drain the wallets of taxpayers when many are barely making it.

If you’re employed in the aviation industry you should be dead agains Trudopes carbon taxes.

Doesn't sound like you're actually asking me. After all, The AvCan norm.

So not much need for me to give any kind of well thought out answer.

[Inverted2]

I'm in no way a Trudeau fan, but he's right on this issue.

Right on what? Making it unaffordable for people to drive or heat their homes? Or bring in hundreds of thousands more immigrants a year which leads to more cars and pollution? It’s just a tax grab, not going to change anything except drain the wallets of taxpayers when many are barely making it.

If you’re employed in the aviation industry you should be dead agains Trudopes carbon taxes.

Doesn't sound like you're actually asking me. After all, The AvCan norm.

So not much need for me to give any kind of well thought out answer.

Ok I’m asking YOU how you think this carbon tax is going to benefit the environment and the people of Canada. Please provide your answer.

[montado]

Well the carbon tax doesn’t have to cost anyone anything. Basically everyone puts money into the pool with the carbon tax and then they divide that money evenly and redistribute it back to the tax payers.

So if you use more carbon you pay more taxes however you get the same credit back as the other guy who rides a bike to work etc. The more you travel, the more you drive, the larger your home to heat the more tax you pay and the less the offset credit covers from your use. Basically you price people out of living large. This way people use less... but you can get around things by switching to green energy. Buy an electric car, ride your bike, live in a smaller home, or make your home more efficient.

I think the tax would be effective, but in a global market you need everyone else in board. No sense in having a carbon tax on our airlines if an American airline competes and doesn’t have the same tax. I guess the question is do you agree with wealth redistribution based on use of carbon resources. It is definitely effective at reducing consumption. The younger generations will retract from what their parents had... the 2k square foot home normal will change to 1k, and then their kids will live in a condo and so on. Life in 100 years will either be living with less or finding in ways to live with more that are green, and don’t abuse the planet.

[rookiepilot]

Right on what? Making it unaffordable for people to drive or heat their homes? Or bring in hundreds of thousands more immigrants a year which leads to more cars and pollution? It’s just a tax grab, not going to change anything except drain the wallets of taxpayers when many are barely making it.

If you’re employed in the aviation industry you should be dead agains Trudopes carbon taxes.

Doesn't sound like you're actually asking me. After all, The AvCan norm.

So not much need for me to give any kind of well thought out answer.

Ok I’m asking YOU how you think this carbon tax is going to benefit the environment and the people of Canada. Please provide your answer.

Ok, I'm Not your FO either.

I do not jump on command. To anyone.

Politeness with me will get you further.

[Inverted2]

Easy there tiger. If you don’t want to answer that’s fine.

[rookiepilot]

Easy there tiger. If you don’t want to answer that’s fine.

Semi polite. Guess that's as good as it gets.

I didn't buy it until fairly recently. I don't buy what's sold to me, either.

Why?
The world is getting hotter. No question about it.
I'm not defending the carbon tax as THE answer. That's up for debate.

I'm saying it's a vital issue that cannot be ignored anymore.

Much worse and we will have serious, serious problems. Think crop yields. And I think governments are getting really scared.

And yeah, Trudeau is still a doofus. But he's right.

[telex]

Easy there tiger. If you don’t want to answer that’s fine.

Semi polite. Guess that's as good as it gets.

I didn't buy it until fairly recently. I don't buy what's sold to me, either.

Why?
The world is getting hotter. No question about it.
I'm not defending the carbon tax as THE answer. That's up for debate.

I'm saying it's a vital issue that cannot be ignored anymore.

Much worse and we will have serious, serious problems. Think crop yields. And I think governments are getting really scared.

And yeah, Trudeau is still a doofus. But he's right.

Climate emergency was last year dad. This year it's covid.

Don't buy into the bullsh*t and you will be happier.

[photofly]

Here's how it worked out for me and my wife. We spent in the ballpark of $4000 on gasoline last year. AFAIK, out of that, 5¢ on every litre was due to the carbon tax. Gasoline averaged $1/litre in 2019 according to my records - and I track gas very well. So I think the carbon tax cost us about $200 on our gasoline purchases. I drive an Outback and she drives an SX4 sedan.

You haven't figured in how much the price of your flying lessons is going to increase, to cover the rise in fuel prices. That's going to blow away your $350 per year, and then some.

[PilotDAR]

I believe in a noticeable (not subtle) tax on carbon, which is entirely applied to non carbon energy production. That means I'm not in favour of a carbon tax (or any tax with a purpose name), which goes to "general revenue" - the government must do what they say they're doing with it. I am directly aware that the earth is warming, and it is affecting the environment/sea ice/sea level. One of the planes I approve research this, and I see the results. Those of us who live well above sea level do not necessarily have the right to frivolously use carbon fuel which results in climate change, sea level rise, and threatens those who live near sea level. The Maldives, among many places, cannot survive sea level going up a few feet.

There is only one earth, "we" can't threaten "their" part of it...

When I see the cost of fuel in Europe, we're getting off easy here in Canada. I see that Europeans are much more fuel conscious. In Norway, where the main export is carbon fuel, the government taxes fuel a lot, and really promotes electric cars with tax incentives.

I am partly responsible for wasting gasoline, bimbling around in airplanes for decades. I have really cut back in recent years. I figure that in my flying career, I have personally burned 350,000 liters of fuel in aircraft, I'm embarrassed about that. My only balance to that is that I own and maintain 60 acres of forest, and do plant trees. When I learned to fly, a 150 rented for $18 per hour, including the gasoline. There was little incentive to economize fuel. Now fuel must be economized, so an incentive to do so is necessary.

I fly my planes around on 6-8 GPH, and drive at 6l/100 km, and get where I'm going. I'll pay the tax on that with no compliant, and economize as best I can. If people want to fly around on 18 GPH, and 18l/100 km, it's not my right to comment, but I'll support the taxation on it, as I'll support what I'm taxed for what I use.

In aviation, we will be tied to liquid carbon fuel for a long time to come, there is not affordable/practical alternative on the horizon. Perhaps a more careful review of this reality could result in a carbon tax rebate for some GA/training use of carbon fuel, as there is no choice - that's what COPA is for.... In the mean time, while I drive diesel now, I'm entirely expecting my next car to be electric, and that's just fine...

But, the government owes it to us to apply all the carbon tax to "green" energy.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

You haven't figured in how much the price of your flying lessons is going to increase, to cover the rise in fuel prices. That's going to blow away your $350 per year, and then some.

True - but I chose to pursue a rather carbon intensive path. I get that. My numbers are from 2019, this year's will be different. But I'm also in a rather small minority in this case and I can understand that an all encompassing environmental policy will hit a few people a bit harder. I could also blame Doug Ford for axing the cap and trade policy, under which I would not take it so much in the teeth. Any way you cut it, burning fuel has got to get more expensive, and I'm burning a lot of fuel.

My point was mainly that I drive more than most, and I at least break even (as of last year) - so I doubt most folks are losing money on this tax. I think it's a fair point when criticizing it.

I'm with Dar though in that I'd rather see the taxes collected be put towards green energy tech or electric car rebates or somesuch.

And on the back of a napkin I figure a 50¢/L tax on fuel, in a trainer that burns 8 gph, will increase the cost of a lesson by $40 or so. I can live with that.

[montado]

You haven't figured in how much the price of your flying lessons is going to increase, to cover the rise in fuel prices. That's going to blow away your $350 per year, and then some.

True - but I chose to pursue a rather carbon intensive path. I get that. My numbers are from 2019, this year's will be different. But I'm also in a rather small minority in this case and I can understand that an all encompassing environmental policy will hit a few people a bit harder. I could also blame Doug Ford for axing the cap and trade policy, under which I would not take it so much in the teeth. Any way you cut it, burning fuel has got to get more expensive, and I'm burning a lot of fuel.

My point was mainly that I drive more than most, and I at least break even (as of last year) - so I doubt most folks are losing money on this tax. I think it's a fair point when criticizing it.

I'm with Dar though in that I'd rather see the taxes collected be put towards green energy tech or electric car rebates or somesuch.

And on the back of a napkin I figure a 50¢/L tax on fuel, in a trainer that burns 8 gph, will increase the cost of a lesson by $40 or so. I can live with that.

You can’t take the tax and then fund green initiatives. The only way this works is wealth redistribution. If you carbon take the lower class you will price them out of living. If you charge everyone carbon tax and then take the entirety of that money and redistribute it to all tax payers now everyone can make a choice with how much energy they use.if you get by being an average users, have a modest home and try to ride your bike once in a while you may even come out ahead and have a net financial gain.

If we take the pool of money and put it to green initiatives this will just further the inequality. Say that money goes to ev rebates, ev rebates will only be taken by the higher income levels, and the bigger users of energy, because they are the ones that can afford it. TBH I think when it comes to the ways you tax for climate change, Trudeau has this right. This will make people think about how much energy they burn and encourage reducing our footprint. However for the aviation industry this means we will shrink, demand won’t grow with population, we should stagnate until our industry adapts into cleaner transportation methods.

[BMLtech]

My biggest issue with the carbon tax is that it unfairly discriminates against everyone who does not live in an urban area. For people in rural areas,and farmers, options such as public transit, walking or biking to work or the store, do not exist. How is it fair to have a tax that disproportionally targets those who have no other option but to drive?

[McKinley]

I’m all for fighting climate change and protecting the environment... However, this tax screams wealth redistribution for the already working poor.

I also agree with the statement about the people who live rurally.

Our society is hydrocarbon intensive.. carbon is used for transport,food, clothing and even manufacturing electric cars. Our society will not be weaned off of this overnight .. a change needs to happen and in a well thought out and organized manner. I don’t believe that doing this “ reset” during a time when the economy is on its knees is responsible.

What about mono-cropping, GMO foods, pesticides, GMO species, land filling?


What about the top 1%? What about massive yachts? Corporate jets? Will Trudeau cease using his CC150? I don’t see that being talked about..

What about the Elon Musks and Jeff Bezos’s of the world? Where are their sacrifices going to come from?

I’m willing to make sacrifices and lifestyle changes ... provided those sacrifices are equal and proportional to income and impact.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forbes. ... st-50/amp/

If one looks how the top 10% is defined ... it’s defined as those making between 35,000-100,000.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguar ... says-oxfam

Interesting stuff...

[tailgunner]

This is the beginning of the end of a viable economy in Canada.
For those who live in Ontario and Quebec, you will see a huge reduction in manufacturing and production of goods. Why build in these two jurisdictions when a plant could be located in Ohio, Michigan, NY?
For those who live in the Prairie provinces, say hello to big production cost increases on mining, potash, and food stuffs. These are mainly shipped by rail and trucks.
BC is vulnerable to production being situated in Washington. One only needs to look at the massive increase in shipping terminals in the Bellingham area. Those are lost jobs and opportunities for Canadians.
Canada trades and competes on a world stage. Our major trading partners are the US and China. Neither of these two are implementing similar policies. We have willingly made Canadian goods pricier against similar products from our competitors. Why import pork and beef from Canada, with the carbon tax priced into the price vs. a hog or cow coming from N Dakota?
If we, as Canadians, continue to cut the economic legs out from underneath this nation, it is quite conceivable that the economic viability of Canada could be at risk