Is being a Commercial Pilot in Canada worth it?

[rudder]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

[PitchLink]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

[Ash Ketchum]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

Just curious, which trades would pay >200K without starting a business or working crazy overtime?

[PitchLink]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

Just curious, which trades would pay >200K without starting a business or working crazy overtime?

That’s a loaded question, Several after 5 years make more than that! however throwing the caviat “without starting a business or working crazy overtime” is a bit unfair. I’d love to see the average time it takes a pilot to make >200k without overtime or being a contractor (business owner). Hint, they’re near the end of their career at that point for the majority.

[Zaibatsu]

It’s not a loaded question. It’s a simple one.

Are you making over $200k on a T4 as a salaried daily or hourly employee?

Or is it as an owner of a business?

If you own a business, what does that figure entail? Because if that’s the gross income you get from dividends and income splitting, then it’s comparable. But if it’s gross revenue then it’s definitely not!

A pilot isn’t paying for a chartered accountant to do his year end. He isn’t paying for insurance on his job. He isn’t paying for workers comp. He has no capital costs associated with his job. No equipment or tool purchases. No building lease or purchase depending on the size and type of business. No work truck. He also isn’t hiring anyone else to help him do his job.

Then there’s the lifestyle aspect beyond that. A business owner can rarely take a day off. You have to make hay while the sun shines. As sole proprietor with no employees there is no coverage for sick days or holidays. There’s no disability if you get injured unless you pay a lot for insurance. There’s no EI if work dries up.

Yeah, a lot of pilots make good money because they are overtime monkeys. But that’s expected as part of owning a small business. It isn’t overtime because you’re not getting paid for it, but the hours are there.

A lot of it is hard labour too when you’re 60-65 unless you can have a company big enough to have lots of employees. That’s definitely not going to be everyone who goes through plumbing school. The other option is to work for a company and be a foreman or site manager but then you weren’t making no 200k 5 years out of school to work up to that point.

[garfield]

Worth it, only if you get a good timing.

[PitchLink]

It’s not a loaded question. It’s a simple one.

Are you making over $200k on a T4 as a salaried daily or hourly employee?

Or is it as an owner of a business?

If you own a business, what does that figure entail? Because if that’s the gross income you get from dividends and income splitting, then it’s comparable. But if it’s gross revenue then it’s definitely not!

A pilot isn’t paying for a chartered accountant to do his year end. He isn’t paying for insurance on his job. He isn’t paying for workers comp. He has no capital costs associated with his job. No equipment or tool purchases. No building lease or purchase depending on the size and type of business. No work truck. He also isn’t hiring anyone else to help him do his job.

Then there’s the lifestyle aspect beyond that. A business owner can rarely take a day off. You have to make hay while the sun shines. As sole proprietor with no employees there is no coverage for sick days or holidays. There’s no disability if you get injured unless you pay a lot for insurance. There’s no EI if work dries up.

Yeah, a lot of pilots make good money because they are overtime monkeys. But that’s expected as part of owning a small business. It isn’t overtime because you’re not getting paid for it, but the hours are there.

A lot of it is hard labour too when you’re 60-65 unless you can have a company big enough to have lots of employees. That’s definitely not going to be everyone who goes through plumbing school. The other option is to work for a company and be a foreman or site manager but then you weren’t making no 200k 5 years out of school to work up to that point.

Given this statement I’m quite sure you’re not a business owner and if you were you did it wrong. I work less than half the year and made more than that for the last ten years and yes, we do contribute to cpp and ei lol

[172DDriver]

I should have jumped into the trades

That's my current jump right now, Back to college...

[Tiberius]

I wouldn't base such a decision soley on what a select few individuals working in the industry have to say. The question of weather something is "worth it" implies that the people you are asking can tell the future.

They can't.

I think this question often comes from people who haven't figured out their livelihood yet and are trying to knock out 2 birds with 1 stone. Pursuing aviation and livelihood don't necessarily correlate.

I think if you are starting fresh out of the gate, your best approach is to figure out your livelihood first. That could be as simple as learning a trade or doing a short 2 year diploma in something that will secure a livelihood for you right out of the gate. It doesn't have to be a top salary, but just enough to sustain yourself. Once you have that, the question of it being "worth it" takes on entirely different optics. In any profession, there is more to consider than just compensation.

For example. What kind of relationship do you want to have with your employer? Do you want to be treated like you're replaceable, or indispensable? Are you going to be at the whim of your boss be treated like a potential partner in the business? What do you have to do to get where you want to be? How long will it take? What are the hurdles? Do you want to be home every night or do you like being out on the road? Do you want to get married and have kids or do you prefer the bachelor life? Do you want to be your own boss? Ok, what sort of capital would you need for that in your chosen field? In aviation, capital could mean the cost of a small airplane. In other fields it could just be a laptop and some software.

Those are just some of the questions you need to ask yourself in determining if something is "worth it". Because you can get the job of your dreams and still end up miserable. Whatever you choose, just make sure you do it on your own terms and not anyone else's.

[rpppilot]

Worth it, only if you get a good timing.

I don't understand why everyone ignores this? in my opinion it's a 8-10 year journey from 0 to making over 100K. What are the chances you're not going to lose your job like half the industry does every 10 years?

Even if you land on your feet in a backup career, what are the chances you'll be able to or willing to leave a stable job when things pick up again?

[confusedalot]

Depends on your worldview, but yes, at the end of the day, it is not a bad gig.

Like the stock market, you can make it big time, or you can lose your shirt, and that will depend on timing, on luck, whether someone likes your face or not, and silly office politics. Those silly politics can have a disastrous effect, but it does not mean that it will happen. Don't get fooled about selection processes, that means squat in the big picture, it's just a stupid game for show.

Pretty much like every other walk in life.

There are no guarantees anywhere, so if you want to do it, fine. Maybe you will make it, maybe you won't. Once again, just like anything you choose to do.

[porcsord]

My .02,

The reason why I continue to encourage people interested in aviation to pursue it is simple: aviation is one of the few careers out there that you can tailor to the lifestyle you want.

Do you want to work hard for a couple months a year for an annual salary and then take the rest of the year off? You can do that. Do you want to see a new destination every flight? You can do that. Do you want to be home every night? You can do that. Do you want to sell your soul for money? You can do that.

Something to consider is that it won't be long before computers start replacing pilots. Probably not the next 10-20 years, but certainly after that. The first will be cargo, then bombers, then airlines and finally the smaller guys. Anybody who thinks "people will never get on an airplane without a pilot" is a fool, ditto to those who think a computer can't do what we do. They land spaceships on barge, they can land a 737 on a runway.

With those two key points in mind, I would absolutely encourage someone to pursue aviation, but have a fall back degree/trade/skill.

PS

[flyingcanuck]

While I agree with Porcsord, I think the biggest factor that turns me off is the starting wages. It takes around 4-5 years once you get to some professional level to get paid enough to be able to rent your own apartment. Which shouldnt be the case in our profession and its frustrating, but we all want that working 10 days a month 200k a year lifestyle down the road. Short term pain long term gain right?!

[Broker]

If you question the value at all, don't go into aviation as a career. Do it if it is your passion.

[ayseven]

Aviation is not really different than the entertainment industry. Some make it. Most don't.

[rxl]

If you question the value at all, don't go into aviation as a career. Do it if it is your passion.

^^This^^

[rudder]

Aviation is not really different than the entertainment industry. Some make it. Most don't.

Of the cadre of pilots in my college class that graduated, all of those that took up commercial flying have had 35+ years in the industry with some reaching the highest levels. Having said that, some experienced periods of layoff, bankruptcies, and mergers. But we all stuck with it and we have all had reasonably lucrative careers.

Aviation is not for the feint of heart. It is unrealistic expectations - born of the unprecedented progression rates of the last few years - that makes some feel that where the industry is today makes the vocation undesirable.

Biggest career decision making errors that I have seen in the industry is individuals taking a ‘snapshot’ in time and then extrapolating that out decades in to the future. That applies to both positive and negative snapshots.

Success is about determination, not circumstance.

[skytramp2800]

Once upon a time, there was a dude who had the last page in “Flying”, known as “Bax”.
He represented every wizened old dude who used to hang around every grass strip that used to populate the countryside.
He was found in every hangar, large and small, corporate, private, in big cities, small towns. I cannot count the good, and bad coffees I was offered, as I used to wander through these mystic places, a 170 tucked behind the King Airs, 1121’s, Lear Jets,
P-Navs, even a P-51, trying to impress anyone who would listen that I was just the guy they were looking for, if there was no flying to be done, they almost always had time for me.
Sadly, those days are done. Passes, security, heck, you can’t rubberneck any more.
Anyway, I never did get one of those coveted jobs, but I did fly throughout the land, before GPS, I rolled countless drums of fuel, pumped a million floats, mingled with eggheads with Phd”s in geology, botany, biology, medicine, vulcanologists from Hawaii, learned all about leverite, and a lot of other stuff as we spent our days crawling over the tundra, the Great Canadian Shield. I did bend some tin, thankfully, the biggest injury was to my ego, which did recover.
Getting back to “Bax”, the words that resonate with me today, as I meet way too many young pilots, hired with Jazz in Oct ’19, laid off March ’20, ‘y’all know who you are... “... the MOST important character that you need is.. “The HBD”, without that, it’s not going to work.

What’s that? This “HBD?” ...the hot burning desire.
Good luck to you all, each and every one of you fine young guys and gals, as much as I reluctantly include myself amongst the wizened, I still get to spin a prop, and get paid.